Thursday, April 20, 2006

Dating Indian Men II

If you have not already done so, you are highly encouraged to read Dating an Indian Man - Part 1 to get the background, before you read what's written below.

Important Disclaimer
Anytime one writes something like what I am writing - making generalizations about people from a vast and diverse culture like India - one is taking a big risk of appearing to be prejudiced or stupid, of saying something which is totally different from the experiences of others, of offending some people, etc. So, remember that there are exceptions to everything I have written above and I will write on this subject going forward. After all, despite cultural influences, each person is an individual in their own right, and each situation is unique. Also, remember that I am merely stating the truth as I see it. Finally, remember that I am an Indian guy myself. I have dated Indian women as well as (white) Americans. There may be some unavoidable prejudices based on my background and experiences. However, it is important for those who know me - Indians and Americans - to understand that all of the following may not be true of me, as an individual. I am merely stating the predominant trends among Indian men.

In this post, we shall discuss what I think are the most important factors you should know about if you are interested in dating an Indian man outside India: his attitude towards romancing women, money & immigration status, and his family (not in any particular order).

Indian Men's Attitude Towards Romancing Women
  • If your Indian guy is quite new to your country and its ways, he may not be very familiar with all the cool places to take a girl out for dating, the nice things to do together in your place, and other basic stuff like that. Also, his tastes in entertainment and cuisine may vary from yours. Don't let this discourage or displease you. This is just a matter of learning for him, and you could encourage/help his learning. You could learn many new things from him too.

  • India is still a country where most marriages are arranged (not forced) by the parents and families. Dating is still not the normal way in which people choose their mates. As such, the Indian guy you are interested in may not be familiar with all the rules, do's and don't's of the Western dating scene. There are some Indian guys who are surely adept at this. But most are not. Even if they have dated in India, they may not be familiar with the Western dating conventions.

  • The other thing the Indian may not be familiar with is all the verbal and non-verbal signals which encourage or discourage intimacy. A lot of these signals are biological and universal. But there are many signals which are quite specific to a culture, because of cultural differences in the way affection is shown and shared. There might be a learning curve associated with this. So, don't think the guy does not like you if he does not immediately respond to your signals and cues.

  • Indians are not big on public displays of affection (PDA) between romantic partners. Such displays are discouraged and frowned upon in general Indian public life. Your Indian man might quite fine or better than fine in private, but he might not be very comfortable with showing affection in front of others - family, friends or strangers. He might particularly be uncomfortable expressing physical affection in front of his family or yours.

  • While the last two points were about the Indian guy not expressing affection the way you want him to, there is also a flip side to this. It is quite possible that the Indian might get overly affectionate and attached pretty quickly. While dating is not very predominant in India, casual dating (i.e., dating without being emotionally invested/attached) is even more of a rarity. In the contemporary Western society, when a girl agrees to romantically date a guy, she is pretty much giving him the signal that, "If everything goes okay, I will sleep with you sooner or later." Similarly, in most Indian dating situations, when a girl agrees to go out with a guy, she is letting him know that, "If everything goes okay, we will get married sooner or later." That may sound dramatic, but it's true. Such conditioning might cause him to get emotionally attached to you quickly.

  • The other thing that Western women dating an Indian guy might experience is a speedy and overt physicality on his part. For reasons which are too numerous to go into here, many Asians (Indians and non-Indians, men and women) believe that Westerners (men and women) are easy when it comes to sex. Without going into a big debate on whether Westerners are truly easy about sex or not, let us just accept that Asians think they are. This belief, coupled with the fact that women in India normally agree to date a guy only if they really really like him, makes an Indian guy think that the Western lady who agreed to go out with him really really likes him; ergo, he is going to get laid soon. This belief and enthusiasm prevents him from giving the lady the time and space she needs to get to know him, and get intimate with him at her own pace.

  • All over the world, in all cultures, men and women know that there are a certain type of people whom they would only date short-term, but never get serious with; and then, there are a certain type of people whom they might like to marry. Indian guys are no exception to this. There are many Indian guys who think that they could date a Western woman for the sex and fun, and then later marry an Indian woman. If this works for you, go ahead and have fun with such a guy. If it does not work for you, ask the guy about this upfront, make your decision and part ways with the him. But do not pass judgment on the guy and say that he is a pig committing a great crime or doing something very dirty. As I mentioned earlier, he is merely doing what men and women all over the world do, or would do if they could get away with it.

  • In India, most people marry just once. Divorces and second marriages are still very rare. As such, people are used to marrying other single people, who have no kids and no baggage from past marriages. Since dating is still not very common in India, for many people, their spouses are the first person they are getting romantically involved with. This is a very prevalent cultural thing. Another very common thing is that the woman is younger and shorter than the man she marries. As such, if you are a Western woman, who have been married before and/or has kids and/or is older than the Indian guy she is dating, be very careful about getting emotionally attached to the guy. Better talk to him upfront and clarify what both your expectations are from the relationship. The chances that he would not want to marry you is very high. Once again, don't blame the guy for this. This is just a cultural programming on his part. From his cultural perspective, you are okay to date, but not okay to marry. If you were in his place, you would probably feel the same way. That's just how it is.

Those are some of the main points I could think of right now regarding the romantic attitudes of Indian guys towards Western women. As I think of more stuff, I will add them to the list above. If there is something specific you would want me to add to the list, let me know about it. Leave a comment or email me.

Indian Men's Immigration Status
Before getting involved with any foreigner, it is good to know his exact immigration status. Depending on what kind of visa he is on, he may have a few days, a few weeks, a few months or a few years left in your country. Apart from his visa status, his job situation would also dictate how long he would stay in a particular place. If you are dating the foreigner casually, it might be okay. But if you are getting emotionally involved, it is better to get all the accurate information you can about his visa and his job. Understand exactly how much time he has left on his visa and job assignment, ask him what are the factors which control the possibilities of extension of his stay and assignment. People don't give out a house for rent or a driving license without knowing this information. You should not give out your heart without knowing this. This might seem like an obvious thing, but it is worth mentioning here.

Indian Men's Money
  • Depending on how long the Indian has stayed in your country, he may or may not be used to your currency. If you are in a country like the US or UK, the value of your currency is much higher than that of the Indian currency. If the guy has only recently come into your country, he can't help but do a mental conversion calculation before making any purchase. What might cost 20 bucks in the American currency, would by his calculation, cost upto 900 Indian rupees. In India, that could be his entire month's lunch expense. Psychologically, it takes some time for an Indian guy to get used to the foreign spending habits.

  • Many Indians who come to the Western countries these days are akin to the baby boomers of the US. The baby boomers grew up in a period of post-World War II hardships. As such, they are careful with how they save and spend their money. Similarly, most Indians who are adults today, probably know of hardships from their childhood. The typical Indian studies and works hard before he comes to a Western country. He probably did not grow up rich. Also, culturally speaking, Indian society is not as consumerist as American society (although that is fast changing). So, although the Indian guy might earn more money than the average American, his spending habits may be more frugal.

  • Indians who go to Western countries for a short-term work assignment, look at it as a money-making opportunity, since they get paid in foreign currency which is of greater value than Indian money. So, they might prefer to save as much money as they can on their short-term assignments. Many of them on really short assignments (like 60 or 90 days) do not even bother to buy too many furnitures for their apartments since they have to leave soon anyway.

  • Although the Indian guy in the West might appear to be a single guy with no responsibilities and a carefree life, that might not always be true. He may have some financial obligations towards his family (more about this coming up) or a house/apartment he has purchased in India, etc. So, his spending potential might not actually be quite as much as his earnings would indicate.

  • We normally don't tip in India. This is another thing which takes time for some of us to get used to. Even if we accept it and get used to it, we might not be too happy about it. We may stick to the bare minimum expected. We are not being cheap. This is another psychological thing. To put this in perspective, imagine that you pay no sales tax on food purchases (which is the case in most American states). Then imagine that all of a sudden, the government starts charging you 5% tax on food. It will take sometime for you to get used to it. For a long time, you will think of this 5% as something additional you are paying, apart from the fair price of the food item. And you will certainly not voluntarily pay 6% or 8% tax on the item just because the checkout person at the store was nice to you, right? That is how it is.

These are just some indicators and pointers about the Indian guy's attitude towards money in a foreign country. You will most probably have no money issues at all when dating an Indian. After all, he is probably quite successful professionally and has his financial situation on a solid footing. However, if it looks as if the Indian guy you are dating is too tight with his money, don't automatically assume he is being cheap. He may not even be aware that he is being too tight. Depending individual situations and relationships, you might encourage him to spend more on dating expenses or even for his personal needs and comforts. Be careful not to push him too much. You might not really know what his reasons for being frugal are. If the money situation bothers you too much, you don't have to stick with him, of course. That is certainly better for both of you.

The Indian family:
Indian families tend to be pretty close-knit. Most Indians have very close emotional and/or economic interdependency bonds with their families. Without discussing the pros and cons of this situation, I just want to state this as a fact with most Indians.

Emotional family bonds: It is not the norm in India for young people to leave the home and live their own lives. Usually young people leave only if there are personal differences with the rest of the family or if job / economic factors force them to relocate. If there are no personal differences which have caused a major rift between a person and his family, the family will influence, or at least attempt to influence, every major decision in a person's life including whom he marries, which job he works on, which/where he purchases a house, etc. If everybody lives under the same roof, the family's meddling and influence will affect pretty much everything about a person's life - major and minor. Depending on the individual and how he relates to his family, their "influence" can range anywhere from being mere suggestions and advice, to being total - almost dictatorial - control over how the person lives his life.

Economic interdependency with the family: This means that the person draws wealth or contributes money to the family, usually the latter. A person could be pitching in to help educate siblings, help marry siblings (Indian weddings are very expensive affairs), pay off a long-term family debt, help support aged parents and/or grand-parents, etc. If the Indian is the first-born or only son in the family, you can be pretty sure that he is expected to shoulder a large part of the family's economic needs. He is also pretty much responsible for the aged parents. Most old people in India do not live by themselves or in old age homes. The expectation is that their sons will take care of them.

Having said all that, there are definite exceptions to the above. There are some Indians who are totally independent of their families emotionally or economically or both, who have almost nothing at all to do with their families. Although such exceptional cases are not very common yet, the increasing modernization of India and reduction in the size of family units, is freeing more and more individuals from overbearing family influence and from family care. Nevertheless, it is easier for Indians to be economically independent of their families, rather than emotionally independent.

There are some Indian guys how are total pansies and defer to their families for every decision big and small. And then, there are some Indians who are totally rebellious. And there are guys of all intermediate types. There are some who will defer to their families when it comes to financial matters, but not in choosing a partner. There are some who will let their families choose the life partner, but are otherwise independent. And there are many who are totally attached to the family before they are married, and then become totally independent after they get a wife. You just have to find out for yourself what type of a guy your Indian is.

If things get emotionally serious between your Indian guy and yourself, you should be prepared for the fact that his family might have misgivings simply because you are a foreigner. This is not hard to understand. If you are older than the guy, if you have been married before and/or have kids from a previous relationship, you can be almost certain that the Indian guy's family will not approve of his relationship with you.

Conclusion
Inter-racial relationships are always a delicate balancing act. One has to not only understand the partner as an individual human being, one also needs to understand their cultural background, motives and influences. Having an open mind and heart, and communicating a lot certainly helps. I hope all the above information also helps non-Indian women who are interested in dating Indian guys. If I think of more things to add or edit, I will do so.

I always believe that sharing the cultures, love, lives and various bodily fluids between people of different races is good for the world and the human race. Good luck and best wishes to everything involved in or considering the idea of inter-racial relationships.

Concluded.

322 comments:

  1. Awesome! I am constantly amazed at your clarity of thinking and clarity of expression. You are perspicacious and sensitive to the happenings around you.

    With each post and each thought,you make me a bigger fan.

    :-)
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  2. Good analysis!

    However, why don't you talk a little about your personal experiences dating an American woman. The personal touch in any article always brings matters closer to the reader's heart and prooves to be more effective in reaching out to the intended audience.

    It might also inspire a few of us to write in about our own personal experiences in inter-cultural dating.

    ReplyDelete
  3. A pretty decent analysis, limiting the discussion to the intended topic is a talent. One thing that stands out is the opportunity given to the readers to judge the situation for themselves, thereby you managed to keep the post in perspective and unbiased.

    hope its ok to comment on others comment,
    videsi gori: May be Libran Lover can put up another post regarding his experiences... personally i feel he has met the requirements of the article by keeping his own experiences out.

    Incidently, I came across this blog, http://datinganindian.blogspot.com/ a few months back and its not being updated! Anyway I mentioned about this article at that blog.

    Libran Lover, thats a cool implementation of "Catagories" in Blogger you have there. The last time i checked with Amit Upadhyay, there seemed some glitch in providing the facilities, besides I'm a newbie.

    As for the category, Bengaluru, being a Bangalorean, its always been Bengaluru in Kannada as well as other southern indian languages.

    ReplyDelete
  4. videshi gori - I consciously avoid going into the details of my personal experiences to protect the privacy of people who are close to me - past and present as well as my own privacy. I know it might seem like an anamoly for a blogger to talk about privacy. Contrary to appearances, I am indeed a private person.

    ReplyDelete
  5. jeyavel - Thanks for the kind words.

    ReplyDelete
  6. NOD..Nice and completely agreed
    I have a broken leg, cant do anything better than reading these stupid blogs. Wow...people have so much time

    ReplyDelete
  7. Videsi Gori With Some Good Sisterly Advice4/23/2006 07:59:00 PM

    The best advice to any American woman dating an Indian guy - once you two cross the casual dating period and enter into "steady dating" or becoming boyfriend/girlfriend, INSIST that he introduce you to his parents AS HIS GIRLFRIEND. If they are not in the States then INSIST that you get to speak to them on the phone, again, introduced AS HIS GIRLFRIEND. If he is not willing for this then dump him immediately. It's a sign that he is the type to leave you for an arranged bride picked out by Mamma. Spare yourself the heartbreak.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Interesting..Gues all the nondesi women would know the right road reading this...Good stuff

    ReplyDelete
  9. Libran:
    I've been mulling over your two posts for over a week now... they have given me some insight. An Indian friend of mine claims he is bisexual. He's been having sex with guys on nearly a daily basis since he was 14. He's getting married next month. I worry about his arranged marriage. From what you've written, I guess I can buy the "situational homosexuality" of an Indian guy with raging hormones and no outlet, but I wonder if after 15 years of this kind of behavior, can he change?

    ReplyDelete
  10. @Videsi Gori, thats bad bad advice...

    ReplyDelete
  11. Good thing you clarified that you have dated WHITE americans. God forbid all of your little indian friends think you dated any of the other cultures and diversity of women America has.
    God forbid!
    Such small minds. There is only white and indian in your world. And you call Americans stupid?

    ReplyDelete
  12. blahblahblah - I don't have anything against non-white women. In fact, I'd have loved to date 'em, but the city I used to live in was predominantly white. Almost all the women I met were either completely white or very predominantly white. Now, you can't blame me just cuz I did not happen to run into a hot latina or a sexy black girl, can you? I did not choose my dates based on skin color. I chose them based on serendipity and chemistry. I don't care what other people - Indians or whoever - think about who I have dated.

    Now, if you are a nice gal and if you are ever in the Phoenix area, and you think you are worth it, hit me up. I'll be glad to show you that I don't have a small mind nor small anything else! ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  13. If only you knew how my day was going. I was searching for one thing and I ended up here. Now you see how that might affect me!

    ReplyDelete
  14. On the Rebound - What do you mean by how that might affect you?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Any advice for a cuban-american girl dating an indian-born (but raised in usa) guy?? Is race that big of an issue in India? will he be shamed by his family b/c of me? we have only been dating for two months, and I'm pretty scared of this...

    ReplyDelete
  16. just me - I honestly don't know what I could tell you specifically for your case. The average Indian parents would naturally have misgivings about a person from another race (this is true of parents from other countries also). However, there is no telling how conservative or liberal your boyfriend's parents are. The best thing you could do is to meet them and see how it goes. After all, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, right? Good luck to you. I hope it all works out fine.

    ReplyDelete
  17. i've dated an indian-american once before on webdate. at first i was quite hesitant but i realized that indian men are very romantic--seriously. but we ended up friends because of culture differences.

    ReplyDelete
  18. averagedrinker - sorry to hear things did not work out with your Indian bf. It is good that you are able to remain friends. Better luck next time.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I really enjoyed your article on dating an Indian man. There is an Indian man I have been trying to figure out and so I have been researching the web for this topic so that I can make some sort of determination. Here is a question for you. What does it mean, in your opinion, when a married Indian man who is a coworker, makes comments like "Even though I'm not supposed to say it, you look sexy in that shirt." He asks you out to dinner to try Indian food to discuss a work related issue. We actually did discuss work. He hasn't made any inappropriate moves so far. We are trying different styles of Indian restaurants. We discuss topics likes karma, reincarnation, stock market, and movies. I am thinking we are just coworkers sharing similar interests but other people tell me that he is just biding his time. He was actually born in India and does alot of "community" work. Any insight would be appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Renee - Thanks for the kind words. Reading what you wrote about your friend/colleague, it is obvious that he is attracted to you. I think in your case nationality does not really matter. If an American guy did all the things which your Indian colleague is doing, wouldn't you feel that he is attracted to you? I mean, American guys don't just casually go around telling their colleagues that they look sexy, right? I think in these matters, a woman should go with her instincts. I bet your instincts tell you that this guy is attracted to you.

    Also, if this guy is married, I suggest that you keep off. Don't even try to "figure him out". If you are really interested in Indian culture or Indian people or even Indian guys for that matter, there are plenty of nice single Indian guys (like yours truly, for example ;-)) out there who'll be glad to introduce you to these.

    I hope you understand why I am asking you to keep off. In these matters, it is better to be safe than sorry.

    Hope that helped.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  21. LL,

    Thanks for the response. I am interested in Indian culture, people, and food - in general all types of cultures. I became interested in the Indian culture after seeing the movie Water. However, because I work so much I don't really have time to go and find any single Indians to show me anything? Where are they? :-))

    Despite your wise warning to keep off - I am still trying to figure him out. From my perspective, we are just friends. He is someone who can show me his culture and to exchange ideas with. Also, I have to work with him on a daily basis which can be pleasant and unpleasant. Is it not possible that from his perspective he only wants to be friends also? I wish I could expound on all of his behaviour and comments to me but it's probably not important. I just need to leave him alone and chale jao - even if it drives this Gori nuts... :-))

    ReplyDelete
  22. Renee - If you are in any average or big-sized US city, you will find many Indians. (Assuming you are in the US). I used to date a really sweet person named Renee. If you are anything like her, you are probably sweet too.

    I am sure that from your perspective, you are "just friends" with your colleague, and it is quite possible that he feels the same way. My previous response was my intuitive feeling based on the little information you gave me in your first comment. I have seen and experienced enough romances - my own as well as those of close friends - to be able to trust my intuition in these matters. :-) I mean, people are not "driven to nuts" over "just friends"! ;-) The fact that you are colleagues is yet another important reason to keep off.

    If you'd like to know more about India and discuss the many facets of her culture, history and contemporary issues, feel free to email me : libranlover-at-gma1l-d0t-c0m.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  23. Libran Lover -
    I just found this and am so impressed. I've been dating an Indian guy for over a year and have two children from a previous marriage. I guess I see now why some things have happened the way they did. It seems clear to me that it is time to end it, as he is a student and will be looking for a job in the next year or so. I had my hopes up, since he has become much more open with his friends and in appearing as a couple in public (minor PDAs, such as hand on my shoulder or hip as we walk), but I recently asked him to go to a friend's wedding and he completely dismissed it. Thanks for helping me see that the time to move on is now, not a year from now.

    ReplyDelete
  24. anonymous - I am glad to hear that my post has been of use to you. Good luck with your relationship and life.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hi, I am dating a really nice Indian guy. I know that he really likes me, but his parents are looking for his wife in India. We go out all the time. He confides in me. I am pretty much his only friend. I know! I'm trying not to get too attached, but when I look at him, I can actually hear his heart crying out that he would like to break away from his culture and be with me. I asked him (just to hear his response) that if and when he marries, can we still continue...he said no. I know he wants to be with me...but he won't cross the line? Is it at all possible for him to tell his family to call this thing off? I already know my answer, so I should just continue on until we can't anymore hunh? I don't think at this point I can walk away from him. Why would God put us in each others lives for a short period of time? Please help.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous - I would help if I could, but unfortunately this is not something I can do anything about. If your Indian friend really wants to be independent, it's upto him to do what needs to be done. Indian culture is not a chain that binds a person against their wishes... not for the average person anyway. There are scores of us who are quite independent in India and abroad, at every stage of life. If your friend really wants to cross the line he will. Perhaps, he does not really want to do so and/or lacks the guts? In either case, you are better off leaving him alone, until and unless he shows by actions that he is willing to do what it takes to be with you. I don't understand why you should be so attached to someone who won't do what it takes to be with you. Just let go. And certainly, don't even dream of continuing anything after he is married. You don't want to spoil three lives! Hope that helps.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I am a divorced mother with 3 children ages 11, 8 & 5. I have met an indian doctor online that lives 3 hours from me. He too is recently divorced but has no children. He is 36 y/o and I am 29. Because of some connections that I have to the town he lives in I have been able to ask around discretely and so far everything checks out. He asked to come this week end fo a date and I have accepted. While talking he has said some things that might lead me to believe he is expecting more, but when I have told him to not expect anything sexual he says that he did not mean it that way, just that he really likes me so far. Is this the "westerner" coming out in me or is he being forward. He says things like "I am looking forward to coming for good company and loving."

    ReplyDelete
  28. fortunate_77 - If your doctor friend is talking about "loving" even before you guys have met for real, he is indeed looking forward to getting laid. It is not an Indian thing or an American thing. It is a man thing. All men look forward to getting laid when they date. We want to get laid whether or not we believe the person we are dating is The One. Some of us can exercise some restraint (for example, not touch you until you make the first move, not make a move until the second or third date, etc.), but ultimately, we are all hoping that we will get laid. Whether your doctor friend wants to get laid on the very first date or on a subsequent date is for you to find out.

    Whether you are dating an Indian or an American, there are a few general rules:

    1. Don't make the first date (especially if it is a blind date) into a weekend long thing. A short coffee or single-meal date is better. That way, if you don't like your date or don't hit it off, you don't have to suffer any longer than necessary.

    2. If you are absolutely sure that you don't want to have sex on the first date, try to make it a lunch or late afternoon coffee date, rather than an evening/night drinks or dinner date.

    3. When you are meeting people from the Internet for the first time, meet them in a public place, where there are lots of people. Plan on spending the entire first date in the public place. Plan on having a friend call your cell phone half an hour into the meeting, closer to the end of your expected meeting time and after the date to make sure you are okay. Tell this friend exactly where you are meeting for the date. Give this friend all the information about your date that you can.

    4. Finally, remember, it is okay if the guy wants to get laid. There is nothing wrong in that. That doesn't automatically make him a bad guy. If you are strong enough and smart enough, you can control exactly when you give it up to him. If he is too pushy and doesn't play along with you, dump him forthwith.

    I hope that honest response plus the unsolicited dating advice helps.

    ReplyDelete
  29. interestedinhim9/16/2006 02:38:00 PM

    Hey, question for you. I just started dating an Indian guy who came to Canada in 1998 with his family. They did not like it here so they went back to India and he stayed. I do have 2 kids and am getting a divorce but he seems to be very interested in them and getting to do stuff with them? Would this be normal for an Indian guy or could it mean he has become more "westernized" He has also said that Indian guys treat their g/f's very very good and love to spoil them? Is this true. I can't seem to find the answer anywhere else but he does seem very eager to buy me stuff.
    To me he is just wonderful.

    ReplyDelete
  30. interestedinhim - I am glad to hear that your bf is having fun with your kids and has been very good to you. I hope it all works out for you.

    To be frank, it is not normal for Indian men to be enthusiastic about a woman who already has kids from a previous relationship. Your bf may be an exception in this regard.

    There is nothing to say that Indian guys will "treat their g/f's very very good and love to spoil them". And there is nothing to say that they won't either. Some guys do, some guys don't. Like anywhere else in the world.

    Good luck with your Indian boyfriend.

    ReplyDelete
  31. what do indians mean when they say you are important in my life.. i am crazy for you... but is living with another girl and do not plan to leave her -- this is such a silly question.. but i wonder if your answrs are the same as mine or if you see some more than what am seeing?

    and why would an indian say.. do not understand things (meaning do not understand why he is back after he has dumped you and disappeared for two years)? and do they really expect their exgf to be friendly with them and accommodating after they trashed them?

    :-)

    ReplyDelete
  32. oh and hey ..i totally agree with what videsi gori said about dumping an indian guy who cant let you speak to his parents or friends .... i had a more painful experience... i visited my indian guy, stayed in his place, but has to move out because housemate is back... and erased all traces that could tell a lady was there..well not so bad but annoying

    so please do save urself from bad experiences with indian guys...

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hi LL...was reading your posts one after another....going thru the comments in this post and your responses - mez thinking maybe you are the relationship doctor everyone is looking for :) Jokes apart...your blog is awesome blossom!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Thanks, MSS. Appreciate your kind words. Please keep checking back. How did you come across my blog, anyway?

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  35. I congratulate you on a very well written article on the various aspects of Indian culture a non-Indian woman should keep in mind while dating an Indian guy. However, I would like to point out that most urban Indians do not really think that much of points like tipping, dependency on family for decision-making, casual dating, etc. But then again I do agree it is a rapidly changing scenario and this has come up lately in urban India. Overall, urban or not, I would also point out that most Indian guys are expected to be financially independent as soon as they can. Again, my opinion, one that might be shared by many though.

    I read this, thinking I might understand something about myself, just having broken off with an American woman. And that gives me the idea of writing something on American women and how they are, for non-American guys out there. Having lived in the States only for a year or so, i would not presume to know much, but if you would like to write it up, i would like to share my thoughts on it.

    Niten

    ReplyDelete
  36. Niten - Thanks for visiting my blog and thanks for your comment.

    You are right that there are many urban Indians for whom tipping, being totally independent of the family and casual dating is nothing special. But such people are in the minority, they are the exceptions that I have mentioned in my blog. The vast majority are pretty much as I described.

    As far as financial independence goes, I think you might not have understood my point. Yes, Indian guys are expected to become earners and bread-winners as soon as possible. In that sense, they are expected not to be financially dependent on others. But that does not automatically translate to financial independence because for many Indian guys, the family still has a claim to part of their earnings. It is not like the West where every person gets to keep all his earnings to himself. Of course, once again, there are exceptions among Indians also where people don't share their earnings with the family.

    One thing to remember about both the points above is that, India is changing everyday. More and more people are becoming westernized, there is an explosive increase in dating, families are getting smaller and individuals are becoming independent.

    Please do write about your experiences dating Americans. I would love to read them, hear about them. If you want to write to me in private, you can always email me - libranlover-at-gamil-dot-c0m.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  37. I just want to thankyou for this blog, I have found this incredibly helpful in regards to having better insight into my having an Indian Boyfriend! I am a white American women (3 years older then he, but I have never been married nor have any kids)
    I have 2 questions.
    #1. Is it common in Indian culture to wait until you are engaged to be married to be introduced to family members? My b/f told me this when we first started dating. However my own parents were insistent on meeting him frankly because they knew that we are serious. He was completly sweet when I asked him if he was willing to meet them. And he did meet them. However, when he goes out of state every other week to visit his faily, he never wants to talk to me on the phone while he is there, and this hurts me a little, esp. when we hardly ever get a chance to talk in between seeing each other every 2 weeks.
    #2 Are sis-in laws/daughter in laws very highly esteemed in India?
    My b/f always tells me that he loves me and that he can see me being the mother of his children some day. However, while I do not EVER expect him to buy me anything(gifs/presents) he is always talking about buying his sister in law presents, and what he is going to/or wishes she was along to buy her this and that.example, we were out shopping at nine west one day, and he saw a pair of boots we both admired, he then made a comment that he wished his sis in law were there -so he could buy them for her!!! I was a bit confused buy this, but I didn't say anything to him about it.
    Is this common with Indian families?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous - I am glad my blog is of use to you. Here are the answers to your questions:

    1. In Indian culture, especially when a marriage is arranged, it is common for EVERYBODY in the family, and sometimes even the extended family and friends, to meet the prospective fiance and give their approval, BEFORE formal engagement. So, what your boyfriend says is not really true. However, there is another side to this question. Perhaps, your bf may not be comfortable introducing you to his family until he is sure that your relationship will be permanent. As I have written in this blog, in India, if you are dating someone, it is automatically assumed by everyone (often, even by the people who are dating) that it is a very serious relationship which will eventually culminate in marriage. And break-ups are serious things too. Perhaps, your bf does not want to go through the whole rigmarole of introducing you to his family and then having to explain the whole messy story to them if your relationship did not work out. Perhaps, that is what he was thinking when he said that he wouldn't introduce you to his family until you are engaged. Does that make sense?

    2. Indian families tend to be more closely knit than Western families. So, it is quite possible that Indians would be closer to their in-laws, especially to the sister-in-law, who becomes part of our family as soon as she marries our brother. However, the way you describe it, especially in light of his not buying you presents, your bf's behavior seems a little bit odd. Indians may be close to their in-laws, but they almost never buy casual gifts for them. Such gift-giving happens only in formal circumstances. I feel uncomfortable commenting about your bf and his relationships, without actually knowing the people involved. So, I hope you take whatever I said with a large grain of salt.

    Hope that helped.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  39. Hello. I met an Indian man over the Internet, who is 32 years old. He just moved to the area and is a techie. We have been seeing each other for a couple of weeks and correspond almost everyday. He is very sweet, but I always feel like he is hiding something? He grew up in India, and did his grad. work in TX. He said his parents live in TX too (about 7 years). I asked if they were all US citizens, and he said yes (no mention of Visas). Anyway, I sort of feel like I am peeling the layers off of an onion with him. He gets frustrated when I try to verify things he tells me. Like at first I wanted to confirm his employment, etc., and it did check out. I am trying to be careful because I met him online. He let me look through his wallet. I wanted to see his driver's license, but he said he left it in TX with his car (he flew here and is living in a hotel until they move his stuff). He has at least 3-5 variations of his name because it is VERY long. His brother still lives in India. I am not necessarily looking for anything really serious. I just want to learn about men from other cultures and have fun, BUT I do not want to be lied to along the way. Is my Indian guy honest?? He can be very intimate and candid too about life in India, etc. If things would progress, is there any chance of a future with him, or do you think I am a play toy for now since he just moved here. He does have family in this area too.
    Confused by my new Indian companion, Curious

    ReplyDelete
  40. Curious - There is no way for me to tell you if the guy you are seeing is being honest. Similarly, there is no way for me tell you if there is a chance for a serious relationship. Why don't you do with him, what you would do with an American guy? Take things one step at a time and see where they go. Don't try to guess the end-game right now. It's too early.

    Also, I would be annoyed if someone constantly tried to verify and double-check everything I said. However, if the relationship was important enough and if I was asked in the right (polite, considerate, non-intrusive) manner, I would gladly share information about myself. And there is some information, I would probably never share at all.

    Finally, no matter what culture and nationality a person is from, if you find too many contradictions in their facts and personality, it is safe to maintain a healthy skepticism and not invest too much in the relationship until you are sure.

    Hope that helped. Sorry, I couldn't help you more.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  41. Thank you. That does help. I am always respectful to him with my inquiries, and I think we are getting past some of that. In fact, it is sort of turning into a running joke. We went out this weekend, and he told one of his friends that we were going out, and his friend asked how we met, etc. His friend continued to ask if he could trust ME! So, we both laughed that the reverse could also be true. We had a very nice time this weekend, and I further understand his legal status (I think). He has worked for the same company here for over 5 years, and he is doing well, so he mentioned something about obtaining a green card. You are right. I need to relax with this and treat it like any other dating situation. I guess meeting someone on the Internet for the first time heightened my concern. He said he told his brother in India about me, and he is sending him my picture. He even said I could pick him up at his relative's house this weekend if it was logistically easier, etc. I will remain optimistic. He is a VERY sweet and generous person, and I really enjoy learning about him and from him. The more time I spend with him, the more comfortable I become. Thanks again, Not-as-Curious

    ReplyDelete
  42. Dear Not-as-Curious,

    I am glad to hear that things are working out between the two of you. Good luck.

    I was only surprised to read that your Indian friend was talking about obtaining a green card, because in your previous comment, you mentioned that he was a citizen and so were his parents. Was there a confusion?

    Another thing to note is that, we are allowed to work in the US on a work visa, for only 6 continuous years. Before the 6 years are up, we SHOULD get a green card or at least apply for one. Or else, we should leave the country. So, if you think of getting more serious with this guy, you might want to learn more about his green card status.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  43. Thanks. I asked him about this, and I did not expect the reaction I received. He got very angry that someone would advise me to ask about this. He said that all Indian people do is ask him about this, so he gets sick of it. I guess he applied a year ago, and he is frustrated by the wait, etc. I guess this is a sensitive topic. Yes, I think there was confusion when I first asked about the status of him and his parents. Sometimes I feel like because of his history, etc., I walk into landmines. Thanks again!

    ReplyDelete
  44. I want to thank you for this blog as well. I met a guy who is much younger than me who showed interest in me, and it totally flattered me. After reading all of this, I feel like a total fool! He is married to a woman in India and is working in the states to get away from her. He said he has to wait 3 years to get a divorce so can not commit to anybody at this point. Do you think that the divorce thing is true?

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous - You are welcome. I'll be glad if my blog is of use to you. There is no legal requirement to have to wait for 3 years to get a divorce in India. I personally know of cases where people got divorced within months of being married. Either this guy wants to wait for some other reasons, or he is simply leading you on to have an affair with you. Most probably the latter. Of course, I know nothing about this guy. So, he could be totally honorable and I could be totally wrong about him and his intentions. But I doubt that.

    ReplyDelete
  46. He had a girlfriend for 2 years that he totally loved and she wanted to get married, and because he couldn't, they broke it off. I wonder what is going on with him. He stays away from India, so maybe it's his Mom not letting him get a divorce?

    ReplyDelete
  47. GA Lady in India1/12/2007 07:53:00 PM

    Thanks for this great insight to Indian Guys. I am an American woman living in India and I met a nice extremely younger Indian man and we started a relationship, I was very clear up front that it could only be a relationship of friendship and sex but things he has said made me wonder if he is thinking more. But after reading your blog I feel that maybe he was trying to tell me what he thought I wanted to hear. I feel better now continuing the relationship and knowing that he isn't expecting more. Thanks again!

    ReplyDelete
  48. GA Lady in India - I am glad this blog has been useful to you. Good luck.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Ive been dating an indian guy for about a yr. He is 36 and has been in america since age 2. I have the same problem with him not introducing me to his parents. He's met mine. He speaks with me about marriage and children all the time. He says once I meet his parents, we'll have to be married quickly. Thats why he's waiting. Do you think this is reasonable? We have no other problems, this issue just raises a red flag for me. He has introduced me to all of his friends/coworkers and he has no problem with PDA. I just don't know how to take this parent thing. Your writing was so well written and thought out, i would like your opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous - I have written a little bit about a similar question in my comment above dated-timed: 11/24/2006 09:02:00 PM.

    Your bf may not be comfortable introducing you to his parents/family until he is sure that your relationship will be permanent. As I have written in this blog, in India, if you are dating someone, it is automatically assumed by everyone (often, even by the people who are dating) that it is a very serious relationship which will eventually culminate in marriage. This might be true of your bf's parents who are most probably more traditional and conservative Indians. For Indians, break-ups are serious things too. Perhaps, your bf does not want to go through the whole rigmarole of introducing you to his family and then having to explain the whole messy story to them if your relationship does not work out.

    So, your bf might be more willing to introduce you to his family when your marriage with him is sure and imminent. Perhaps, that is what he was thinking when he said that if he introduced you to his family, you will have to get married soon after.

    I hope that makes sense.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  51. I really enjoyed your posts and I think you've included some very helpful information. I have been dating an Indian guy for about three months. We met online and we communicate in some form or another almost everyday. We actually have only been able to meet each other in person twice in three months. We live about 500 miles apart ao, it does make seeing each other a little difficult. I like him very much. He's honestly the sweetest guy I have ever been involved with. He is currently in India for his sister's wedding. He actually talks about marriage sometimes. He says his parents really want him to get married soon. He is the oldest and the only son. He has lived here in the US for about 8 years. He told me he doesn't have any intentions of moving back to India permanently. I guess I just worry sometimes that he might decide he can't be with an American woman or something. I'm sure I'm over analyzing, but I just have incredibly strong feelings for him and we just seem to click in so many ways. I'm probably just worrying for no reason. Anyways, I really did enjoy your blogs.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous - Thanks for your kind words. I hope it all works out for your Indian bf and yourself. Good luck.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I have met a wonderful Indian man on an internet dating site. He seems to be a good bit Westernized/Americanized. But he still has traditional the traits of a traditional Indian man. He has been here eight years. He is very smart and has a great sense of humor.
    I am very interested in him and I have invited him to visit for a few days. (he lives in NYC and I live in Tennessee) I have never been married. However, I do have a child. I have been very honest with him about the fact that I am working towards my four year degree after being out of school for several years. And that even though life has been hard, my dream is to finish and go to medical school. He says that scores a lot of points with him, because it shows I am determined. I enjoy taking with him. He has also confided in me that he wants to learn to be more relaxed and "silly," as he was raised very formal. And has had issues of insecurity because of his formal upbringing. After reading your blog, I am very nervous. He knows I did not grow up with money or come from a family that cared if I was educated or not. But now I feel less than worthy in the eyes of his culture.(He is very white collar and I am very blue collar) I feel that asking him the questions that I have been reading about, this early in the game, may have him thinking I am moving too fast. Do you have any specific advice?
    Thanks and best regards...

    ReplyDelete
  54. Hi! I found all your comments and histories very interesting. I have dated guys from different parts of the world, including Asia, but this is the first time it happens to me to date an Indian guy: well...it is really difficult to have a mutual understandig, sometimes. I am sure that the feeling we both felt when we met was really genuine and he has been so helpful to me (we are both foreigner here were we live), so kind and familiar that when sometimes I have bad feelings about him I just feel guilty.Actually, the bad feelings come when it gets to intimacy. I am pretty used to Asian men not showing their affection in public, but in this case I feel a problem in the privacy of our home (we actually share a house with other people). He told me he might end to seem rude or selfish in the intimacy, because he has no idea of what is intimacy, since he had never had one before(so handsome, coming from a big city of India, being in his mid twenties...is that really possible???). Honestly, if he hadn't told me about his feelings towards me, I would just think that he's with me to have sex. The point is that I have no problems in just having sex and being friends, but I have a high opinion of sex and want to enjoy it at the fulliest, not just sex. he says he has no clear idea about how to truly enjoy it and to make it enjoyable and he'll learn about it. I know it may be possible (for anyone on the earth) to be not experienced, but a part of me still doubt that he is just taking from me what he wants and that's it. Then when he leaves my room he just goes, without any hugs kiss or whatever, and when once I asked about this he said that in India is the woman who has to give a sign that she wants to do this or that, and that his attitude was actually of respect, not the contrary. That is considered respectful to depart looking in each other's eyes. I am confused...Sometime I just think he's not sincere, but then I see him hurted by my words of accuse of lack of respect by him, and he asking me "but...do you like me?", and I just feel that probably it's true that is a matter of habits. Ah, by the way, I'm 3 years older then him (even if apparently younger). But then why he talks about inner connection, destiny and so on? And why does he consider important if I am veg or not?? I am honestly confused!
    Any suggestion welcome! Given that I now that it depends on what I feel, I just would like to understand to what extent it may be a matter of culture or a matter of personality.

    Many thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous-who-dreams-of-finishing-medical-school: I don't have any specific advice for you, apart from what's on this blog. You are the best judge of your situation. Always remember to use both your head and your heart when doing anything and taking any step. Good luck.

    A Girl: Your situation sounds like a messy affair to me. I don't buy the argument that this guy cannot please you because of cultural reasons. Regardless of what his excuses are, if he cannot please you, why would you want to spend too much time and energy over him? Since you don't seem to be looking for anything long term or permanent with this guy, all I can tell you is to enjoy, to get the best out of the situation while it lasts and then move on. Don't try too hard to make sense of the situation or to change anybody.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Yep, I think you are totally right. I should just try not to over-interpret, justify, change anything and take in the whole situation just as far as I find it enjoyable. Time will tell. You're so good to go to the point of a situation, I envoy you!Hope you're adjusting well back to the States,

    many thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Hi, I actually just stumbled across your blog and wanted to add a little insight as an American woman engaged to an Indian man and very happy. We have been together for 3 yrs and I would like to say that most of your insight is right on. I would like to add one thought on his parents, which have by far been the most difficult part of our relationship, if his parents live in India then it is not always possible to meet them, and if they are a very conservative family from a small village (as my fiance's family is) then he will not tell them about the woman until he is sure they are getting married, so demanding to be introduced to them early in the relationship is similar to demanding a marriage proposal, there are other ways to tell he is serious about you without pressuring him concerning his family. Some excellent ways being whether or not he introduces you to his indian friends and actually wants you to hang out with them or asks you to learn his native language (Hindi in my case). Through my fiance I have met all types of indian men, some will never marry an american, some want to, and some don't know, but they were all extremely open to discussing their culture, their relationship views, and answer any and all questions. So, my humble advice is if you are dating an indian man and have a question, simply ask him and if he doesn't give a straight forward answer or explanation, then become skeptical. I am very lucky and the cultural differences are not meant to be overcome, just accepted and intergrated and life is much more interesting. Thanks for the excellent blog LL!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous - THANK YOU for your excellent comment. I hope we can hear from more American women about their experience dating Indian men. Good luck and best wishes for your future.

    ReplyDelete
  59. WOW Libran Lover! There was obviously a need for a blog like this, since its still going on(I have read it in its entirety and intend to add to it)!

    As for my own story, I am a caucasian woman living in the US, and have been talking with an Indian man who lives in Mumbai for nearly 2 years online. We began talking after meeting in a BBW chatroom...he has a preference for larger women, and I qualify...lol. We clicked immediately, and now, having talked nearly daily for almost 2 yrs, have grown very close. I have never met a more attentive man in all my life! We've shared a lot of laughter, and also some very disappointing personal and emotional issues. The main one being that upon waiting 5 months for an interview with immigration after applying for his tourist visa, it was declined(he'd had a visa once before and visited the US in 1997). In tears(on cam)he told me of the denial of his application, and said he loved me, and that he would not give up trying to be with me.

    It's been nearly one year since that interview, and to this day, he has made no attempt to apply again(to MY knowledge), and has never again used the words "I love you".

    From reading everything you and the others have blogged, I know my friend is in a traditional family situation. He is the eldest and takes the responsibility of caring for his parents very seriously. He had been in an arranged marraige, but divorced quickly when his wife's parents insisted that he move his own family out of his home in order for them to move in. He has admitted that he would not marry again, nor become a US citizen. I'm aware that I am a secret to everyone in his life, and though I may not LIKE IT, I guess I can accept it. He is unusually capable of putting himself in my position, and says he would never be a hurdle to my happiness. Since our friendship began, he has proven himself to be a man of his word, and always follows through when he tells me he is going to do something. I'm at a loss here.

    While I know it up to me to decide if/when I should stop hoping that we might still have a chance of meeting face-to-face, I thought perhaps you, or maybe someone else reading this blog, might have some insight or advice. There is no doubt in my mind that he cares deeply for me. I just wonder which will win...culture and tradition, or a determination to explore the possibilities.

    ReplyDelete
  60. I feel bad for you, anonymous, in the problems you are facing with your "friend". But I have a feeling you already know the correct answer, you just don't want to accept it (a problem that most women, including myself, have gone through). He has already chosen tradition and culture, he is there, and he isn't trying to be with you. But I want to know, why haven't you straight out asked him what his intentions are? I'm sure he cares about you, but you have spent enough time on this man, you deserve to be happy, with a man who wants to be with you, not just speak to you from the other side of the world. You must know what an impossible situation this is. In the time that you have been in contact with this man have you attempted to connect with other men? The reason I ask is that I think you call him your friend so you can say that you will date people and still be able to talk to him, but you know that isn't the reality. It will be painful to take yourself out of the situation, but you will be happy you did it when you are with a flesh and blood man who is with you and not on your computer.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Thank you so much for your comment. You were correct in saying I already know the answer, as I HAVE asked him directly what his intentions are, and his reply was "Nobody knows the future." I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. For a long time I kept profiles on several sites, thinking that I might meet someone closer geographically. However, when I talked with others and didn't grow to feel that same strong bond I have with him, I would lose interest and allow the friendship to fade. He would occasionally make a remark to me about keeping my profiles online, so I eventually removed them, cutting myself off from any other possibilities.

    No doubt trying to put him behind me will be painful. It's sad that in order to doso I will have to sever the connection completely, which will hurt him terribly. While he didn't make the choice to be with me here, he did invest as much of himself as he was capable of, so I will feel as though I am being somewhat selfish.

    Who would ever have guessed that a few words exchanged in fun could lead to such attachment? Loneliness and the desire to share life with one special person makes us vulnerable. No matter how strong an individual you are, you can still fall under the spell of someone who pays such close attention to you, that they would notice the change in your breathing from the other side of the world, when you did not even hear it yourself!

    ReplyDelete
  62. I am an Indian guy, I was engaged to marry an American girl. My parents met her and it was over. She didnot like my dad - she liked my mother though.
    Here are a few facts...
    1) We dated for about 1.5 yrs before my parents arrived from India to meet her. My sister also passed away during that time - I am the only child now.
    1) My dad told her what she might have to do in India (when she visited) - like attend religious functions(puja). I didnt butt in and tell my dad to stop saying it. She has weight issues and my dad was a little insensitive about it. He also tols her that I *will* be moving back to India. She told me that I should have got in my dad's face and told him to shut up.
    2) She is a country girl and her family is really racist/xenophobic/conservative/religious etc. I had to really kiss their ass to get in their good books - go to church and sing songs that I didn't know sh*t about. They also made fun of India etc when they saw the dirty streets and cows on TV/internet etc. (though not to my face)

    3) Her mother is a total Bi**h. She uses the N-word all the time. She is nice to my face though. Her dad is dead.

    4) My parents left after 2 months - marriage plans were over. Its 2.5 years since we started dating - I am still with her.

    This is what came out of my relationship with her....
    1) I am an athiest now.
    2) I know for sure now that my dad is an asshole.
    3) I have a spine now
    4) I know that her mother and the rest of her family are pieces of s**t.
    5) My girlfriend is cold and bitchy.
    6) I know now how ppl closest to me can also be selfish. Its everyone for themselves.

    I still stay with her because there seems to be some connection somewhere. Anyway we both know its not going anywhere. I still learned a lot from this relationship. My parents now want to arrange my marriage - they are coming again in coupla months

    ReplyDelete
  63. Hi Anonymous-Indian-guy-who-was-engaged-to-American-girl,

    Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I am sorry that your story did not exactly turn out to be an ideal happy one. I don't know all the details of your story and you did not ask for my reactions or advice. Nevertheless, here's my reaction to your story:

    1. I don't think your dad is an asshole. I think he said it as it is. I think it is good for every family to have an elder who will say things as they are.

    2. Selfish is something to be looked at philosophically. Everybody is selfish. There is no doubt about it. You and I are too. The only question is, if our selfishness is harming others and us. I think that your family had your best interests at heart.

    3. Being an Indian from India, I doubt that you will be able to indefinitely stay with somebody, without being married and with an uncertain future. So, you gotta start thinking practically too.

    4. It doesn't sound like you are truly in love with this person you are staying with. It also doesn't sound like she is such a great person. She certainly doesn't seem to be the right person for you. So, you might want to think of this as a passing phase in your life and move on. It is easy to become used to a certain situation in life, be too lazy to change it and then lose a lot of good years. Don't do that. You'll regret it.

    5. I don't know what your stance on arranged marriages are. If you are not against them, then I recommend that you work with your parents proactively to find a nice, suitable girl for yourself and settle down happily.

    Good luck, brother. Take care, be safe and for god's sake be happy.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  64. Hi- I recently met an Indian man online. I have been rather distrustful about dating through this format anyway, but it has been difficult to meet quality men. I am 3 years older than T., never married no children. He told me that he told his family, they all live about 2 hours away; and his best friend (also Indian)what a nice woman he had met. We had a misunderstanding soon after meeting, stopped speaking; but were off on business in the same town recently and reconnected. It seems to be getting more like "steady dating". I am a student of international studies, but knew little of Indian culture. I actually have always enjoyed Bollywood movies and have been viewing more serious fare such as "Water" by coincidence before I even met him. After doing some research and reading various blogs and web books this week, I am kind of concerned as to his intentions. In some respects, Indian men sound very similar to any other man as far as - getting what they want with empty promises. He is 40 and has rejected offers of arranged marriage. I am not sure if I should talk to him about the type of things that I have been reading - or give him the benefit of the doubt and just see where this goes. He said he likes the fact that I keep him on his toes, and people are individuals at heart and different from stereotypes. Some of the info about views on money, family etc. have opened my eyes and given me a better understanding. Such as being quite upset when one night he would nestle his head in my shoulder waiting to be seated at a restaurant and not even hold my hand the next day! Now I least I know it is culture not me! Thanks. Signed-Blonde woman quite taken with Indian man.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Dear Anonymous-blonde-woman-quite-taken-with-Indian-man,

    At heart and in the loins, Indian men are no different from any other men. So, look at this Mr T as a man first and as an Indian second. Go forward in this relationship in the same way that you would go forward in a relationship with any other man. Good luck.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  66. I have to say something about the indian guy once engaged to an american girl, I found that entry a little disturbing. It sounds like a lot of things went wrong in the relationship, neither of you were willing to do what was necessary for a positive outcome. But this is a little American woman 101, the families of most american woman (especially small town) have numerous prejudices, and it is generally understood that as long as they don't say it to your face, it is ok, this may or may not be good, but it is the way it is dealt with generally (they probably won't change, but at least the man is spared most of the pain). Also, no woman wants her future father in law to pick on her weight and treat her rudely. That is a cultural difference her boyfriend should have prepared her for, and although he shouldn't have yelled at his father, there should have been some explanation about how to treat a woman. So, basically he let his girlfriend know he didn't want her by allowing his father to treat her badly to her face (that is the big culture difference), and why in the world would he become engaged to a woman when he was planning on moving back to India, if you are going to marry an american girl, that you have met while living in america, that is a living situation that the couple needs to discuss and reach a decision on, not be told by the father what is going to happen. Sounds to me like the father had the intention of putting this girl in her place and getting rid of her and both of them allowed it to happen. It wasn't the father's responsibility to act appropriately, it was the boyfriends responsibility not to throw her to the wolves. I'm engaged to an indian man and his parents had their temper tantrums over me, but they were told, we are now a package deal, and I will give them all the respect they deserve, and he expects them to treat me the same. My responsibility is to behave well, and if they ever treat me badly, I guarantee he would be much more hurt by it than me. And I take care of my parents and they know better than to say anything derogatory to me or him, that is unacceptable. But I can't control what they say about us behind our back anymore than he can control what his parents say. I'm also disturbed that LL thinks is was ok for his father to treat the girlfriend that way. If your gonna allow someone you love to be treated like that please have an arranged marriage, you'll hurt less people that way.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous-who-left-the-last-comment: I pretty much agree with most things you said. However, I have to clarify that I do not condone the father ill-treating the American gf. Here's what I said about the dad: I don't think your dad is an asshole. I think he said it as it is. I think it is good for every family to have an elder who will say things as they are.

    The father expressed his opinions without holding back. He laid down the reality as he saw it. That frank expression is what I approve of.

    The Indian guy who is/was engaged to the American girl was not in the best of situations. He was with a girl who does not sound to be right for him, her family did not respect him and he seemed to be settling down to a life of misery, while he could do better than that. Somebody had to say things as they are. If the son is too blind to see the reality and he is not assertive enough to make a good life for himself, it's good that he has somebody in his family to speak up in his interest.

    Now, could the father have presented a falsely benign face to the American girlfriend? Sure, he could have. Could he have expressed his opinions privately to his son? Yes, he could have. But he comes from a different culture. He comes from a culture where many parents think they have the ultimate say in decisions about who their children will marriage. So, the manner of his expression was cultural. Not because he is an inherently rude person or an asshole, like the son thinks.

    This might be a little hard for you to understand because you are an American and you are used to marital decisions being mostly made by the individuals who are getting married, while the parents have no more say than mere acquaintances. But I am sure even you will appreciate if somebody speaks up and points you in the right direction, if you are going in the wrong one.

    As for me, I would never let my parents or anybody else to mistreat the woman I love. Everybody who knows me, knows that. So, they wouldn't even try it... even if they were the sort to do anything like that (which they are not).

    ReplyDelete
  68. Dear Libran Lover-
    Thanks for your feedback. I guess my reading up on Indian culture and dating Indian men was a waste of time. Mr. T has left for a 2 month work assignment on the other side of the country (yes- 2 day notice to me) and has decided that although "I like you a lot, love to be with you" does not see us romantically involved. Yup, I thought we were already "romantically involved". HA HA on me, I guess.
    Thanks again for this blog. Maybe if I ever meet/date another Indian man, I'll revisit.
    Signed- Blonde that is down but not out!

    ReplyDelete
  69. hey LL, I did mean to imply that you were advocating the mistreatment of the girlfriend by the indian man's father. I am very aware of the parental control that goes along with indian parents (parents in general sometimes, I'd love for you to meet mine). I still think the situation with the father could have been handled differently. I think the man was irresponsible to get into the relationship and he chose badly as well, both of those things apply to the girl too (lets not pretend the man is innocent and being taken advantage of by an evil american woman). Of course, someone should reason with him, and a parent is the best to do it, but do you think that his father was pointing his son in the right direction by picking on the girl's weight etc. or was he just taking a shot at the girl? He should have spoken to his son about this, b/c he had the moral high ground in the situation and now his son is saying he's an asshole, which would not have been the case had he addressed the situation with his son or even addressed it with both of them in a more reasonable manor. Saying it like it is can really backfire.

    ReplyDelete
  70. I'm sorry, I meant to say I didn't mean to imply you were advocating the mistreatment of the girlfriend, I was typing too fast.

    ReplyDelete
  71. I agree with you, anonymous. Thanks for visiting and leaving a comment.

    I wish people who leave comments would use a name other than 'anonymous'. Even a false name would do. My blog does not ask you to login or use a real name. If you use a name, it becomes easy to address my comments to you. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  72. I have struck Gold finding this blog! I have searched for a year trying to find info on dating Indian men. I have read a comment by another woman who said that Indian men tend to predict the future of a relationship early on, without really letting it progress to a point of finding out who they are really dating. I find this to be an enigma for myself too. I have been dating Indian men for a year now. I find it confusing too. Why do Indian men tend to do this? I dated a guy a year ago, I grew attached to him quite fast. He warned me not to become attached, and like a fool I didn't listen, but I had no choice, my heart did all the driving, no logical message my brain was sending could override my heart's program. Needless to say, we broke it off when we realized that his decisions were not the same ones I would make and the places we were at in the developing relationship were not at the same level. I find this perplexing, but as your blog said, dating an Indian younger than myself will prove challenging. What are some warning signs that an Indian guy isn't interested in dating you for a serious/marriage material relationship? It's not like a guy of any ethnicity is going to tell you that all they have in mind to do with you is get laid by you. Only someone truly inept would do that. Geeky, brainiac, but cute and hot Indian guys are very aware of the potential harm that would be to their bedposts (getting laid factor) if they told the truth!

    Oh and another thing too...it is so true that you Indian guys need to develop some interests, it's not much fun having to be the one with all the life. You must have something going on with yourself, you have a date with someone! Talk about your culture, it's probably the main reason you are dating someone outside of your ethnicity, cuz they are intrigued by your background.

    ReplyDelete
  73. So go beyond dating ... what if your Indian guy actually breaks his social norm and marries you? But still does not tell his friends and family? What is that saying?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Thank you so much for writing this article. I dated an Indian for four years and it never crossed my mind that I was ok to date but not ok to marry.

    I wish I had read your article earlier.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Hi,libran lover

    How are you? I recently stumbled into your blog about dating Indian guys and I have to say that I loved your artcile.

    I dated an Indian guy for almost four years. He did introduce me to his family after maybe two years and brought up marrige too.

    However, recently, after his parents found two sisters for him in a different state. It completely changed. He said he wasn't ready to marry anyone now.


    And of course he never told me anyting about these sisters until I asked him why all of a sudden he was not ready for marriage.

    He did say that the younger one is already engaged to his brother in India and the older one is talking to some other guy.

    But the way he described them hurt me very much "they are Indian, they are my religiion, AND they are from my CASTE." I can tell he thinks that they are perfect wife candidates.

    And did you notice that none of these things he mentioned include chemistry, personality, compatibility at all?

    So I broke up with him. And reading your article confirmed that I made a right decision.

    Thank you so much.

    I have a friend who is currently dating my ex bf's roomate.He is from India too.

    He dated her for almost three years and NEVER introduced her to his family. He recently went back to India and said she could come along if she was ok to be introduced as a FRIEND. She didn't go with him.

    But she also told me that he said if leaving his family out of it, she IS the one he wants to marry.

    And she tried to break up with him but he was so sweet and mellow that despite the fact that she told him to move his stuff out of her place, he still came back and still spend almost every night together. I know this because we live in the same building and I saw his car parked downstairs every night.

    Oh, I forgot to mention that she is about five years older than him.

    I am just wondering if there is any chance that their relationship might work out? Or is he going to leave her for an Indian wife someday? I don't want to see her heartbroken in the future.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous,

    I am so not comfortable giving you an opinion without knowing your friend and her Indian bf. In fact, even if I knew them, I could be quite off the mark. So, take my opinions with a grain of salt.

    From what you tell me, it sounds like your friend's Indian bf is okay to be her bf, but not much more than that. I hope that helps.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  77. Married_but_Secretly6/24/2007 01:35:00 PM

    And you would think that at some point a guy might be beyond parental influence. Perhaps enough to take the plunge ... but even then you're likely to remain just his dirty little secret.

    ReplyDelete
  78. After reading this blog and all the comments, I have come to understand a little more about inter-racial dating. I met an canadian-born Indian over a month now online and so far things have been good. I am a black woman born and raised in Africa but moved to canada in my teens. We spend alot of time together and he is a great person from what I've come to see. The challenge for me has been basically trying to understand indian culture and how to deal with him so far. I have a great time with him and I like him alot and he has also told me that he likes me but the only thing is that I don't know where this is leading. One thing i've definitely noticed about us being together in public is that people tend to stare at us and we've talked about it just being plain ignorance on their parts.

    The issue about meeting his parents has come up but at this point in time, things aren't that serious. He told me that his parents will eventually warm up to the idea of me but he wants to wait till he is sure of things which I understand but its just a little hard for me. He mentioned that Indians tend to think less of black people, especially that black people are dirty and dishonest. Its sad to hear that considering that there are black educated people that are doing great things in north america.

    Overall though, I just wanted to say thanks alot for writing this blog because it has been a great help for me so far.

    - a canadian in love

    ReplyDelete
  79. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your story, Canadian-in-love. I wish you all the best.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Wow - finding your blog has been a bittersweet experience. I've been looking for information to help me understand the Indian man I've been seeing for the past 6 months. This is a great resource, but at the same time I feel the message is that most likely as a white woman, I've got no real chance of building something long lasting. At least now I know the questions I have to ask to save myself from heartache.

    ReplyDelete
  81. This blog has been very useful to me. I am a plus size african american woman I recently started seeing an Indian man who I met online he's very sweet, polite and respectful but I don't know how to tell if he is interested in me. He has been living in the US since he was 7 months old. When we go out he seems nervous or somewhat shy which is weird to me since he's a doctor. Goodbyes are always awkward for us because both od us stand there and kinda look like OK do we kiss hug shake hands or what. He always makes reference to us going out again. He's 31 and I'm 32. I have been married before but I don't have any kids. Is this mormal for him to move slow? is he waiting on me to make a move? is it normal for Indian men to romantically like plus size women?

    ReplyDelete
  82. Shauntee - It may not be that he is taking it slow. It might simply be that he is a little shy, or does not have much of a practice.

    As far as I know, Indian men's size preferences are about the same as those of American men.

    Hope that helps.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Hi! I am a mixed race female (black/white) who is a registered nurse. I have worked with many Indian men in the medical profession, but here lately there is one doc that I have become extremly attracted to. This is an older man (around 55, I am 26) who carries himself in such a professional manner. He is always well dressed, smells nice, has a wonderful sense of humor. He has been in the US for years, so I guess you can say he is "Americanized". He never wears a wedding ring, but I don't know if that is a cultural thing. I have become extremely flirtatious with him; and I am definitely feeling vibes as well. I have never dated an Indian man, so what would be the best way to show my interest without appearing "desperate" or "easy". I would certainly like to be seen as the reserved, down-to-earth individual that I am instead on an "easy" American woman. Thanks...

    ReplyDelete
  84. Corrine,

    Thanks for stopping by.

    If the Indian guy you are interested in is so much older and successful, he is almost definitely married with children. So, you not want to act on any romantic feelings you have for him. You will end up hurting yourself and/or several other people.

    On the other hand, if he is single, well... the only way for you to be seen as reserved, down-to-earth is not to make the first move and certainly by not throwing yourself at him. Just have the normal interactions, make yourself seem nice and happy. If he is attracted, he will show it soon enough... one way or the other. Really, it's not much different for Indian guys. Since this guy is older, he is probably a little more conservative. So, you have to take that into consideration as well.

    Having said all that, it is generally not a good idea to get mixed up with someone from work.

    Good luck. Hope that helped.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  85. Beautiful American Girl9/14/2007 11:35:00 AM

    LL- Thank you for your post. I am a divorced, older white woman who has been involved with an Indian man over a year. We have a wonderful friendship/relationship and an extraordinary sexual connection and physical attraction towards one another. We can't keep our hands off each other! However, he comes from a very traditional family that would find me to be an inappropriate life partner/wife. He has been very upfront and honest about these things, and while it's been difficult, I've finally come to terms with reality. I come from a liberal, open-minded and educated family, so it's been tough for me to accept the terms of our relationship. Western society often preaches a "love will prevail" romantic attitude, but this same belief will most likely not be understood or shared by Indians. And frankly, I don't necessarily want to be placed under a microscope and scrutinized by anyone's family...why go through that? How would there be hope for having a great relationship with your in-laws when initially they'll do everything to deter your partner from marrying you? No thanks! So while we have a deep connection, there are other men and women out there for us, which would be more suitable. Rather than cut off the relationship altogether, we remain friends and lovers and meet up every few weeks while we pursue other dating leads. Of course I will be sad when it ends (which it most definitely will), but I feel fortunate to have been with such a beautiful person. As cliche as it is- it's said that people come into your life for "a reason, a season or a lifetime." Appreciate when someone enters your life and accept when it's their time to go. Trying to force a situation or change a mindset will just result in frustration and heartache.

    ReplyDelete
  86. BE CAREFUL...
    Indian men can have great qualities, as mentioned in this blog--but one thing that has to be REALLY emphasized is the control families have, especially over their "precious" sons--particularly given the double standards in Indian families. Listen, I'm an Indian woman, and I couldn't put up with the mama's boy I was engaged to--I tried and tried and they masked their emotional neglect and severe scrutiny with kind words. I was willing to compromise so much b/c we were committed, but he and his entire family cut me off and threw me away like trash when I got sick with a serious illness.

    Many Indian moms infect their sons with ideas of the "perfect" wife who will be docile enough to not be competition for their son's affection but also strong enough to deal with all the in-law crap. MAKE SURE that the Indian guy you are dating has a healthy emotional distance from his family. Don't be fooled by the sugary language the family uses, and don't be fooled by engagement/living together/wedding if there is ANY doubt that you instead of his family is his priority---nothing is guaranteed...Indian men have no problem abandoning women if there is a perceived "imperfection." I know that some Indian guys out there will get on me for this, and surely I do own my responsibility in issues in my relationships. However, there is a lot of evidence out there for this, and I just want to protect at least one woman out there, and to compel guys out there: figure out how healthy your attachment to your mama is before you drag a poor unsuspecting woman into your emotionally messed up head. And despite what your mama says, you are NOT perfect.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anonymous - Most of what you have said about guys leaving a woman they are dating based on perceived imperfection is true not only of Indian men, but also of other men AND women. It is a human thing.

    As for being mama's boys - for Indian men, it is not so much about being mama's boys as it is about being under the influence of the family. It so happens that in most Indian families, like in many other parts of the civilized world, the mama of the family has a lot of say and influence.

    Having said all that, I do agree that your points are very valid.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  88. LL & Anonymous-

    Is it more of a "cultural taboo" for an Indian man to marry a non-Indian than it is for an Indian woman to marry a non-Indian? Anyonymous seemed to suggest that in her comments.

    Also, where does education/profession fit into the picture? I have a very successful fashion business and went to an average university, plus a private art school. My schooling was purely by choice; I never wanted/attempted to get into an Ivy League because I knew early on what I wanted to and a big-name school wasn't a requirement. My Indian bf's cousin, whom I met under the pretense that I was a friend, seemed to look down upon me after a barrage of questions about my education and profession. All of my bf's siblings and cousins have gone to the top schools, while my family is more "self-made". I find it to be a bit of a catch-22; do Indian men want a docile woman to take care of them but also want someone who is ambitious, well-educated and successful? Would all of these characteristics come into conflict (the end of The Namesake springs to mind), or would it be expected that a woman place her husband's needs first after entering a committed relationship? I realize every relationship is different, but wonder if there's a sort of an undersood protocol.

    LL- just wanted to add how much I'm enjoying your blog. Your posts about dating Indian men are so insightful, it's like all of the missing pieces have come together. I have finally come to understand the behavior of the Indian man I've been involved with. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Dear LL,
    I have recently moved back to austin, tx for highschool. I used to live up in northern rural missouri. At first,I actually hated it here because it is so much diffrent then where i used to live. One group of people will dye their hair, pierce their noses and do drugs. another is a group of severly hunchbacked, unhealthy skinny computer geeks.(yuck!) But there is one group that really sticks out to me from the rest: a group of indian boys. Yes, they are a little geeky, but they are extremely attractive and sooooo sophisticated. When I first got here I secretly admired them for everything they were- interseting, handsome and very adult.I even loved their names, aniket, arnov, shrevon... Now I really want to talk to them and be their friend, but I'm afraid to annoy them. In fact i almost feel inferior to them. They don't really hang out with anyone but eachother. Though after watching them for months, they seem very happy and funny, indeed very welcoming! What to do?
    P.s thank you for this website! i didn't think anyone would make a website on these specific topics!

    ReplyDelete
  90. Hi MariaSweet!,

    Thanks for your kind words.

    Regarding approaching Indian men, you don't have to do anything different from what you'd do if you wanted to approach American guys. Indian men are men like any other men on the planet. So, I don't think they would be annoyed if an interesting and attractive woman approached them. Don't worry about that. Just bear in mind all that I have said about Indian men in this post as well as in the post about Inidan men and Inter-racial dating. Then, go with your own feminine instincts.

    Hope that helped. Good luck to you.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  91. Dear LL again,
    Thank you for answering my question!I feel more confident now. But another thing I'm wondering is if these boys (who were raised probably most/all of their life in america) would follow indian customs. Some of them I know went to local middle schools here, and their families act pretty american. I haven't really got the chance to go talk to them yet. I'm kind of afraid I'll ask too many questions. But thank you anyway. It's kind of hard for me to treat them like any other male student, because they don't act like any other male student. But I'll say hi to them tommorrow.
    thanx-
    p.s. how much of the population in india speak english?

    ReplyDelete
  92. MariaSweet,

    I didn't realize that the guys you were talking about grew up in the US. This is one group of guys I am not very familiar with. However, I'd guess that they are more Americanized. So, it should be pretty easy for you to get social with them.

    Most of the people in urban India speak English. But English is a language which takes on many different accents and localized vocabulary in different parts of the world. Nevertheless, you will find countless people in India who speak English and quite a few of them might speak it better than many Americans! :-)

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  93. Libran Lover,
    Yeah, I know these boys have lived in America for a while, but I've heard them talk about visits to India and indian relatives that still live in India. That is why I was wondering if they follow native Indian customs. Thank you anyway!

    ReplyDelete
  94. Interested party10/02/2007 01:17:00 AM

    Thank you for an informative and insightful blog.

    So just to make sure I understand your observations.

    I recently began seeing a Indian man who is working and going to school in in the US. He has never been married and is the only son in his family.

    I am older than he is, divorced and have children. I am a highly educated professional woman.

    Per your observations and knowledge
    I should not ever reasonably expect this to be a long lasting relationship? Even though he is affectionately and actively pursuing me?

    Are there exceptions? Conditions under which a divorced is more acceptable?

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Interested Party10/03/2007 06:24:00 AM

    Also, he has asked me some unusual money related questions and was quick to clarify he suuported himself, had a job and was here on a work visa not a school visa. Why are these significant?

    ReplyDelete
  96. Interested Party,

    You are older, divorced AND have children. That's three strikes already! Sorry to say your chances for a serious, long-term relationship with this Indian guy are bleak to none. The only exception to this is if this guy is extraordinarily different and in love with you to the point of madness. It would also help if he has no close family to influence him.

    Without knowing this guy, I cannot comment on why he might have asked you a lot about your financial situation. In romance and most other personal relationships, my experience is that you should be wary of people who are too curious about your finances.

    Hope that helps.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  97. Interested Party,
    Libran Lover gave you some very sound advice, but I would like to give you some encouragement. The first thing you should do is Pray and aske for guidence regarding this relationship. I am an Afro-American single mother of one and the love of my life is a very well established professional Pakistani Man. I will admit his family has a problem with him dating me and they have tried time and time again to make his life a living hell. However, he stands firm on his faith and loves me to no end. He has repeatedly stood up to his family regarding his intention to marry me. There are instances in which I could share with you that would blow your mind as to the the lengths they have gone to with hopes of breaking us apart--but it only makes us stronger. He is facing the risk of being disowned by his family, but that is a risk he is willing to take. If there were ever a true love story, it would be mine. Now I realize that my relationship is one of the few that has survived the adversity in which it has faced and will continue to face with each passing day. But as long as you and your SO are on the same page and put GOD first there are no limits to what you can have. One thing I must share with you is that you must remain humble in all your dealings with your SO and his family.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Indian Techie Guy in US10/15/2007 02:22:00 PM

    Just wanted to add this. I am an Indian techie, been in US for almost 2 years now, and its really frustating to see some really good American women who don't have a clue as to what they are doing in life. Indian men, in general know what they want in life and go by a plan. It certainly helps if you are career-oriented.

    Any Indian who is open-minded enough to marry a non-Indian would preferably want a wife who also knows what she wants in her life.

    - Indian Techies Guy

    ReplyDelete
  99. Thanks for stopping by, Indian Techie Guy. Would you please elaborate your point a little bit more?

    ReplyDelete
  100. Oh man! I'm back with another interesting story of Indian men with the biggest ego's on earth. I think I should write a book for Americans of just stories of some of these guys. So, yet another of my fiancee's friends is about to go to India to get married. It is an arranged marriage, he has spoken to her on the phone quite a lot and of course they have seen pictures of each other, but they have never met in person. According to what I have read from LL on this and his other blogs, an indian man with a good job making a decent living, who isn't crippled is a catch. So, this guy qualifies. Now I should add that this fella also is almost completely bald, has very litle personality, and also has some emotional problems, meaning that he has the emotional maturity of an 18 year old college freshman (this is generally accepted, I'm not editorializing). Well, he wears a hair piece and is self conscious about it, and he hasn't told his bride to be that he wears this. So, he became very worried that she would not find him attractive. He told her on the phone he was worried she wouldn't like the way he looked. She said not to worry that she didn't look exactly like her pictures, they were the best ones of herself she had, so she is realistic about it all (pretty mature given the circumstances). Well, now he has switched from worrying about how good she will think he looks to how good he will think she looks. He says that he is not good a pretending and if she isn't pretty enough he is not going to like her or want to marry her and it will be very obvious, since he doesn't hide his feelings very well. So, he wanted advice from my fiancee on how to get out of the wedding if she isn't pretty enough. My fiancee's response was he was the wrong person to ask, but that he should grow up and realize that this is the real world and he isn't the most attractive person on earth and he shouldn't expect her to be either. I don't pretend to understand the inner working of any man's mind. But if you enter into an arranged engagement and then break it off by saying she isn't pretty (this guy isn't creative enought to make up a good excuse, he would say exactly why he doesn't like her), doesn't that basically ruin her chances for getting a good spouse? And what are the implications of the dude that backs out of an arranged engagment with this reason? I'm not arguing whether or not arranged marriages are the right thing, I'm simply asking that if arranged marriage is your lifestyle of choice, then this is one of the pitfalls, don't you just have to live with it? I'm actually pretty appalled by this man at this point and I'm secretly hoping she backs out on him with the excuse that he is too bald or something, he needs a serious dose of modesty to go with that obnoxious ego of his.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Utter crap.... I guess all this irrelevant to some Indian guy(me) who went to college here..

    ReplyDelete
  102. I actually have a question. I have happily been with an indian man for awhile, everything is going great, I've been invited to India to meet his parents. He has tons of friends, mostly men (of all races and backgrounds), the women he is friends with are all girlfriends or wives of his other friends, except for one. He has one friend that is an american woman. I recently saw some of the chat logs from him talking to this woman and they weren't overtly bad, just inappropriate, for example, she mentions she's wearing a skirt at work that day and he says that men find that sexy. Or another one is him offering to set her up with one of his Indian buddies, and saying it is really a selfish move, b/c he values her friendship and wants to keep her close for a long time. He says he views this woman as a sister. I have only met this girl a couple of times, she's nice enough, but I just find these types of conversations inappropriate in general, especially when the girl is single and not a particular friend of mine, just his. The question is, am I being unreasonable, I think it makes me look like a fool, whether he knows it or not, he is flirting with this girl,

    ReplyDelete
  103. Hi there,

    Just out of curiosity, do Indian men find Indian women attractive enough to date and marry? I'm just asking because there seem to be so many blogs/websites teaching our good old Indian men about dating other races. Whatever will become of Indian girls like me, I wonder.... :(

    ReplyDelete
  104. Stacy,

    It is only incidental that the players in your story happen to be Indians and it involves an arranged marriage scenario. Otherwise, the ugly drama in the 'business' of dating and marrying - men trying to bag the most attractive woman, and women trying to bag the wealthiest or most powerful man they can - happens in all cultures, all over the world. Whenever love takes the backseat in the formation and sustenance of relationships, ugliness comes in.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  105. Anonymous-Indian-guy-who-went-to-college-here,

    If all this 'utter crap' is truly irrelevant to you, good for you. However, there are a lot of other Indian guys, including those who went to college here and those who were even born here, and their non-Indian girlfriends to whom this is highly relevant.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  106. Marcia,

    The situation you are describing and the issues/questions you have has little or nothing to do with the fact that your boyfriend is an Indian. Something like this could easily be happening even if you had a non-Indian boyfriend.

    In any case, you might be better off talking about this to one of your trusted girlfriends who knows both of you. I am sorry that I am not able to be of more help.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  107. Not_Anonymous,

    It might hearten you to know that a majority of Indian men find Indian women attractive to date and marry. In fact, they prefer Indian women. Also, there are more websites (matrimonial, dating, etc.) which cater to the Indian men's preference for Indian women, than there are sites for Indian women interested in non-Indian women.

    Were you born and brought up in a foreign country? If you were brought up in India, you'd know that there are literally millions of Indian men interested in Indian women, and this will always be true.

    So, wonder no more and cheer up!

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  108. Hmmm... interesting to see some non-Indian women interested in Indian men! Any specific region of the country where this is more likely to occur??? Would be VERY interested to know! ;)

    ReplyDelete
  109. To Jackal,

    There all non-Indian women all over the United States that are interested in Indian men. I know for sure they do here in the Midwest.

    ReplyDelete
  110. I am 37 and have been divorced for a year. My life is really good overall and filled with friends and family, hobbies and a good job. I'd not dated anyone until two months ago when I met an Indian guy. He's 29, and as soon as I set eyes on him, it was all over - the chemistry between us was that strong, and it was mutual - not just sexual, but intellectual and in many other ways too. We are very compatible in terms of hobbies, and get along well; he is romantic and kind and honest. He's been in the States for five years and has an older brother and parents in India. He has no plans to move back. While he told me he was going to marry an Indian girl, I still know he had feelings for me; at two (!) months, I'm the longest relationship he's ever had. Recently he told me that since he's started talking to women there, he doesn't feel comfortable seeing me as well. Even though I knew there was a 99% chance of this happening, what your head and your heart know are two different things...I could no more have walked away from something as wonderful as it was than I could have flown to the moon...and I've read versions of more or less my same story here - I get it - culture over chemistry and his being able to open his mind and heart to me in a possibly more permanent way. And I didn't mean to get attached, knowing that...but I did, and it hurts. I'm not telling anyone else what to do or not do, but...it hurts. How much I wish things could be different.Thanks for letting me vent, maybe it will help the healing a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Hmmm... time to move back to the midwest! Thought the northeast was the place, but have to keep looking down south! Good luck to all... oh, Cammie, sorry to hear of your story, I suggest finding an Indian guy born in the U.S, maybe that will help avoid the issues you grappled with above...

    ReplyDelete
  112. Jackal,

    Non-Indian women who are likely to be interested in Indian men are more abundant in liberal metropolitan areas. I am not familiar with the East Coast, but on the West Coast Portland-Seattle area and the San Francisco Bay area are good locations if you want to meet such women.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  113. Cammie (and others with stories similar to yours),

    I really empathize with your angst. Pain in love is never easy.

    But I have to ask you and others in similar situation, one question: if the guy you were interested in was not an Indian, but all other factors were the same, do you think that your relationship would have lasted and turned into marriage or long-term commitment? For example, imagine an American guy who is similarly younger, never married, well-educated, with a good job. Would such a guy be likely to marry an older divorced woman with kids?

    The Indian men's culture and families may be easily visible targets to be blamed for the failure of relationships. But these unequal relationships are doomed from the beginning, regardless of cultural differences and family influences.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  114. I finally stumbled on a winning website!
    I work at a graduate college and after working at a mostly female organization (can you say "catfight"?) felt blessed to be surrounded by so many attractive men, many of whom are Indian.
    I thought one of our students was giving me signals that he might be interested and debated the ethics of dating a student at our school but I'm not 100% sure how to move things forward since my hesitancy may have cooled things a bit. I don't want to make a fool of myself by misinterpreting signals (seeking me out to talk and inviting me to coffee could just be friendly gestures from someone interested in other cultures, yes?) and...I'm sure both of us misinterpreted our ages - I gave him 6 and most people deduct at least that many from me but the total point spread is 11.
    Any suggestions on how to find out if he's interested without totally embarrassing myself? The age thing is another, later, matter and I'm a real age-ist so this is a little weird for me to. He just has a great sense of humor, deep beautiful eyes and a great smile - I find myself willing to overlook the age thing for once.
    Your advice is appreciated, after reading your blog you sound like a sensible, open-minded person whose advice I would value.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Cradle_Robber!

    Appreciate your sense of (self) humor! :-)

    When a guy seeks a particular woman to talk and asks her out for coffee, it usually means that he is interested in her. But what exactly does 'interest' mean in this case? It's upto you to find out.

    If you want to find out more and if you also want to express your own interest, it's quite simple - give yourself more opportunities to meet and spend time with him. Then, let things flow as they will in those meetings. In romance and love, most of us feel the urge to "make something happen", one way or the other, at the very initial "rush" stage. I think the better thing to do at this stage is just give ourselves the opportunity by being available, by maximizing face time and shared time, and then see how things go. I hope that bit of advice helps.

    Having said that, I hope you are as much of a new age-ist as you are a real age-ist. That's because with so much of an age difference, you are probably better of expecting and having a new-agey, no-strings fling or affair with this guy. Too much emotional investment could lead to hurt. This would be true even if the guy was an American.

    Good luck.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  116. Not-American-White

    I am in love with an Indian man, he is so caring, not at all cheap, he is very generous and just adorable. We see Bollywood movies together, I love seeing Devdas and listening to all the songs (Morey Piya is my favorite). By googling "dating with Indian men" I found your blog. Thanks for all the advice, it's truly valuable. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that (because of my background and my commitment phobia) I don't want a relationship, just casual dating. Will he think I am a total whore? I really love romance, it's just that in my country we are more reluctant when it comes to relationships, sex etc

    ReplyDelete
  117. hello LL, I've been commenting on here regularly now and I have just arrived back from my first visit to India, where my fiancee's parents and sisters live. After dating this man for several years and reading everything on these blogs my analysis is that there is no way to understand Indian men without experiencing his country and culture...I have learned so much, there is not enough room to explain it all. But I would like to say that I totally and completely see where these men are coming from and why most of these relationships don't work out. If I had known a few years ago what I have learned I don't know that I would have dated an indian man, it is a big gamble if you are looking for a serious relationship and I am very, very, very lucky to have found this man. I should qualify that his family is from a small village and much more conservative than I imagine a more metropolitan family would be, but a lot of the same cultural issues still apply. Everything about this culture is inclusive and wrapped up in a very long standing tradition, now some traditions are good and others are bad, and a lot of educated people identify the bad ones but do nothing to change them for fear of becoming social outcasts. This is a very social culture and appearances mean everything. The one thing I found the most interesting was the obsession with skin tone and hair, people are not able to buy food, but they will color their hair or get a wig. My finacee is slightly graying and has thinning hair and strangers in the street came up to him and asked him why he doesn't dye his hair and get hair plugs, I was appalled at this. I understand why indian men only marry indian women a lot of the time b/c they are ingrained from birth with the notion of loyalty to the culture, I heard a lot of talk of loyalty to the culture, which includes a number of things, the largest being putting your parents above everything. Your parents wishes are the same as if Jesus went up to a devout Christian and told them what to do. To do anything against their wishes weighs so heavily on people's minds that it drives them crazy, only the most strong willed people will not give in, I was lucky to end up with one of these strong willed people, but their aren't that many and I would strongly, strongly caution anyone to get into a relationship with someone from a culture that is the polar opposite of their own. My fiancee was a stereotypical indian and he only changed his mind when he was put into an arranged engagement and found the person to be so totally wrong for him that he was forced to question a lot of things in his system of beliefs, if his parents were so much more wise than him, how could they make such a huge mistake on something that will affect his entire life, even today they admit to how big that error in judgement was. If it weren't for this, he would be like every other indian man, which will not go against his family and retain his loyalty to the culture. I can say with complete confidence, 99.9% of the time the indian man will not stay with anyone other than an indian girl, unless he has liberal parents. His family are good people and they love him and they are very nice to me, even after I had proven my willingness to work to make them happy, they still question him on his decisions. The idea of the evil indian parents is just as wrong as the idea of the evil american woman out to demoralize the indian man. The problem comes in not understanding from one side to the other. You can't blame indian men for their inability to stand up to their parents, it's not in their culture, it is in the american culture so american woman don't think it is a big deal to go against your parents, this is due to their ignorance of indian culture. The only real blame can be put on miscommunication and inability to see where the other side is coming from, that is true of both indian men and american women. Please, please, please, go into these relationships with your eyes open, it is a big gamble, and as with all gambling, most of the time you will loose. This does not necessarily apply to Indians born in the US, I have direct knowledge of them.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Not-American-White,

    Whether your boyfriend thinks you are a whore or not will depend to a very large extent on how he is individually. You know that him better than myself. :-)

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  119. Stacy,

    Welcome back! Thanks for sharing your feelings after the visit to India. You are right - you really have to visit India to know the culture, the place, the people. Even then, it's so vast and diverse, you get to know only a very small percent.

    Apart from all that you have mentioned in the comment above, how was your trip otherwise? What else did you do in India? Feel free to email me in detail. You have my email address. :-)

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  120. To answer LL's question:

    "But I have to ask you and others in similar situation, one question: if the guy you were interested in was not an Indian, but all other factors were the same, do you think that your relationship would have lasted and turned into marriage or long-term commitment? For example, imagine an American guy who is similarly younger, never married, well-educated, with a good job. Would such a guy be likely to marry an older divorced woman with kids?"

    LL, I think the difference is that the above listed traits (older, divorced, kids) are not necessarily "deal-breakers" for American guys. I can only speak from my own experience, and don't mean to generalize. Age is not a concern, assuming a woman takes care of her looks and is attractive to the man she is with. As for divorce, approximately half of the US population is divorced (and women are often catalysts) so it's not really a "cultural taboo", like in India. A single parent presents more of an issue, because it introduces an entire new dynamic to the relationship, and set of responsibilities. The pros and cons of dating a single parent are typically analyzed (for men and women) before embarking on a new relationship. On the flip side, both single moms and dads proceed cautiously into relationships since they don't want a parade of random romantic interests in and out of their lives, or their children's lives.

    Just last month, my step-brother married a divorced Mexican woman with a five year old daughter. I'm not sure how his new wife is- I'm not sure my parents even know her age because it is irrelevant to us. My parents stance is that as long as he is happy, they are happy and are even thrilled that they have a "new granddaughter". My step-brother is 36, has a successful career, and went to an Ivy League college.

    With my American guy friends, they've broken off relationships with women due to how they were feeling. I hear things like "I love her, I'm just not in love with her", or "I've had a wonderful 3, 4, 5 years with her but I don't feel like she's the person I want to marry". In other words, it usually ends because there's not enough there emotionally to sustain, not about judgments in character. I've never met an American guy who has decided to end a relationship based on the factors you mention. Either the factors irrelevant, or if they are a concern...a relationship never blossoms because it's decided to be a "deal-breaker" before it begins.

    The frustration with my situation (divorced, 3 yrs older than my Indian ex-boyfriend) and others is the deep relationships that have developed with Indian men, who have fallen just as deeply in love with us as we have with them. Maybe it was by accident, maybe they just intended to date casually, but the difference is American men are much more free to make decisions about commitment based on what feels right for them, versus dealing with "check-lists" that might be presented by parents or traits that are culturally ingrained. For Indian men, there ends up being a real dichotomy between heart and mind, followed by an ensuing struggle to cut off something that FEELS good. It's like running a 10k and stopping right before the finish line.

    I do agree with Stacy, though- in many cases, Indian men will be upfront and honest about how far they can take the relationship. They can still be crazy about you, but will give you a "reality check" if expectations are running two different courses. I was honestly very surprised when my Indian boyfriend told me about the "deal-breakers", which he said he could live with but his family could not. For the first time in my life I felt like someone who had come from the "wrong side of the tracks"!

    The unfortunate thing is that family pressure to maintain tradition among Indians can be so strong, there's a risk of marrying someone who isn't quite right. So it's not a surprise to read blog posts from women who think Indian men are trying to have affairs with them. I've had many married Indian men attempt to have affairs with me, as well. I know the prevalence of infidelity is high among married American men as well, and again, I'm speaking from my own experience. I don't know if the married Indian guys are bored or unhappy, or if they see opportunity in American women who could be viewed as "easy". Or, quite possibly, I'm susceptible as an attractive woman who just happens to be fascinated with Indian culture and travel.

    I'd love to hear any insights or experiences about this...

    ReplyDelete
  121. Hi there American Girl...I was really interested in your comments. I had a couple of reactions to them. Something that really hit home to me was the feeling of being from the wrong side of the tracks, it is difficult to feel unacceptable, when in our own culture you may be quite a catch. I remember very early in my own relationship that my fiancee sent his father my actual resume, that was not a good feeling. I think that in any relationship if you are being given the feeling of being inadequate that it is something to address with your boyfriend and if he doesn't do something to change that feeling in you, then it probably isn't a healthy situation, so you should take that particular feeling as a good sign that the relationship should end, regardless of what his parents think or what he says. As far as the checklists go, you are right that in our culture we have checklists, but a lot of people just won't pursue a relationship with someone who doesn't meet their 'requirements', thats just not what indian men do, I'm sure there are so many reasons for this it would be an over-generalization to guess why.

    I do have a question, if you are fascinated with indian culture, why were you suprised when your boyfriend told you of these parental issues? You should have figured out pretty quickly in your inquiries about the culture about these types of things. Were you aware of this being a common problem but thought your boyfriend was different and would stand up to his parents? Did you not have any discussions with your boyfriend during your relationship about these issues. I ask simply b/c my new outlook on these situations is for people (regardless of the race,natinality, etc.) to ask the blunt, difficult questions throughout the relationship, it's communication and it my make or break a relationship, it will cause arguments, but hopefull they will be healthy arguments.

    Of course, there are so many problems to be faced with this culture that the chances of it working out are slim, do you feel like you would have made the odds better or worse if you would have addressed ongoing problems? I just hate seeing so many women on this site who feel they've been taken advantage of or feel they are from the wrong side of the tracks and I wish you all the best in your future relationships, take away some good lessons from the indian relationship and apply it to your next. One of the drawbacks of our culture is that you go through a number of bad relationships to get to a lasting one. Good Luck!

    ReplyDelete
  122. Hi Stacy,

    Thanks for your comments...and wow, your fiancee's father requested your resume?! That's both surprising to me, and I have to admit...a little humorous!

    My ex-boyfriend hasn't made me feel inadequate, rather, just upfront about how his parents would perceive him bringing home an older, divorced white woman. This has made me feel like I'm from "the wrong side of the tracks". I mean, HE thinks I'm great and always behaved loving and affectionately, but also communicated very honestly about how his parents would find me inappropriate. I wasn't aware of the cultural taboos, I guess, because I previously hadn't experienced a close, intimate relationship with an Indian man, nor had I known anyone who experienced what I have gone through. Hence my not asking "the hard questions".

    I agree that everyone has a "checklist" they need to pursue a relationship. In my case, there was enough there for a relationship but ultimately the fatal flaws were my not being Indian, older and divorced.
    What started as casually dating, turned into a very close connection and once we started talking about our long term pictures, realized our insurmountable obstacles we'd be facing with his family, and decided to part ways in a mature and amicable manner. The tough thing is that we've bonded so deeply, that it's difficult to stay away from each other or not talk. I'm definitely up for addressing ongoing problems, and we did handle things pretty well together. His family, though...I just don't think he can go there. I have never felt taken advantage of and I wouldn't describe it as a "bad relationship". On the contrary, it was incredibly special which is why it's been hard to move on.

    Stacy- a question for you: since you mentioned "there are so many problems to be faced with this culture that the chances of it working out are slim" what has made your relationship work? Resume got the stamp of approval? ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  123. Hi American Girl, thanks for your response. I am very happy to see that you had an overall good experience with this man, you went in with your eyes open and basically learned along the way there were unavoidable problems...sounds very close to an american relationship, just maybe the unavoidable problems were slightly different.
    As to your question to me...yes, my resume was acceptable, I'm a highly educated person, which is a valuable commodity in indian culture (as it is in ours as well). But I mentioned before that my fiancee was in an arranged engagement and it was a disaster and he formed some new opinions of the whole arranged marriage idea. His parents made a BIG error in judgement and he just decided they couldn't decide better for him than he could for himself (the whole idea behind the arranged marriage is that the parents can decide better, so this is quite controversial), had it not been for this, we would not be together. He is definitely not like an ordinary indian man, for example, he never sees himself living there again, he has big reservations about several customs that if he can't change he doesn't want to be a part of, so he is different to say the least. The only reason I say the chances are so slim comes from 2 things. 1. I know a lot of indian men and only 2 others have even dated american women, the rest don't even consider it, and 1 of those 2 was just looking for some fun before his arranged marriage. 2. After seeing the culture, the parents really control every aspect of these peoples life and totally feel they are entitled to complete control (whether or not it is right is another blog I feel). I could be over generalizing, I always try to stress I'm only speaking of my own experiences, but I've seen how hurt some women are by the reasons for these relationships ending and I wonder if they had known some of the things I've seen would they have chosen differently...I think I might have, but it wouldn't have worked in my favor, as I would not be with my fiancee now and it is a big success. So, the moral is take all of my ranting with a grain of salt. I just hope you found it to be a rewarding experience, and it sounds like you did....maybe if you would have sent the parents your resume they would have been supportive...hahahaha :-).

    ReplyDelete
  124. I have been dating a Indian born guy for a few months now and we are talking about marriage. I am 5 years older than him, I have 3 children, but was never married before. He told his parents that he was planning to marry an American girl and they told him that they will talk about this later. Tell mw what does that mean? His family is going through some hardships rigth now in India and he is sending them money as they need it. Which I have no problem with. But does that mean they don't like me or does that mean that they are jsut not ready to amke a decision now? Their blessing means alot to both of us, and I don't want to pudh him to ask them for a answer right away because that might make them say no. Please tell me do you think I am wasting my time with this guy, or should I just give his parents time to think?

    ReplyDelete
  125. Michelle,

    It is extremely difficult for me to say what your Indian bf's family mean by "they will talk about this later".

    However, I am rather surprised that their reaction was merely to say that they will talk about this later. Are you sure that your bf really spoke to them about marrying an American girl? If yes, are you sure that your bf told them everything about you (being married with 3 children, etc.)? A typical Indian family's reaction to their son marrying an American girl would be to have many doubts and misgivings. Their reaction to the fact that the woman is 5 years older than him, has 3 kids without being married would be to blow a fuse or two, to put it mildly.

    You asked: "Please tell me do you think I am wasting my time with this guy, or should I just give his parents time to think?"

    My answer: Forget about the parents for a moment. They (and the rest of his family) will surely be important factors later, if they are a typical Indian family. But for now forget them. First think about the two of you. You said that you have been dating this guy for only a few months. Are you sure the two of you truly want to get married? Note that I am not asking if the two of you love each other. I know that there are no rules to love - it can happen in a second or it can take a lifetime to happen. My question is about being in a marriage, as a husband and wife, as partners. Are you sure the two of you really want to be that and are ready at this point of time? Is your bf ready to be a father-figure for your three kids? Are your kids ready and willing to accept him? Think about these questions carefully. Talk to your bf about these. It is important not to make him feel pressured or to make him feel like it's an exam. Give him the space, freedom and ease to reveal his true thoughts and intentions.

    Also, remember that a lot of people jump into relationships and situations in the heat of the moment, spurred on my mutual attraction. When the heat has cooled off, are you two really willing to be partners? That is the question you need to ask your bf and yourself, before you can even make a commitment to each other and then think of his family.

    Hope that helps. Good luck. Hope things work out well for you.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  126. Hi American Girl,

    Thanks for all your comments. I understand all that you are saying. I know that among Americans (and many other Western cultures) previous divorces, children, age differences are relatively less of a make-or-break factors when it comes to marriage / relationship. Nevertheless, even among Americans, there is no doubt that younger people with less baggage are more desirable than older people with past baggage.

    The other thing to consider is that a lot of American relationships start off with dating and romance. We are always more willing to compromise and lower expectations where romance is involved. Or when a relationship starts off on a romantic footing with mutual attraction. However, when one is literally shopping for a mate or going about looking for a relationship with a cool head (the Indian arranged marriage situation or the American 'personals' and 'dating services'), one is looking for the best deal they can get. That is why an extremely low percentage of people who use 'personals' or 'dating services' seem to find their ideal mate through that route.

    Makes sense?

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  127. Yes I am sure that my bf told his parents. Maybe the reason why they said that is they ahve a daughter whom they arranged her marriage in India, she had a child and they divorced. He told me that they respect his decision but he has to convince them that our relationship is good.

    I did think about what you had asked me and we did talk. He loves my kids, they don't all live with me, only the youngest does. And they all like him very much. I knwo what I want in my life and he said that he does as well. Do you think that his parents want to reconsider the arranged marriage thing because of what happened to thier daughter?

    I know to some Indians intimacy is something that you share with the person you choose to be with for the rest of your life. When I separated with my kids father I also put that in the back of my mind that I would not sleep with anyone unless I wanted to marry that person. Well we did share intimate moments already adn I took his virginity from him. I know he is sincere about his feeling for me, but do you think it would be wise for me to talk with his parents about our relationship and what we are planning to do?

    ReplyDelete
  128. Stacy: Thanks for sharing your comments. It seems like you are one of the few women on the blog that has experienced a happy ending. It's important to hear-- especially your description of your fiancee who sounds amazingly mature. I congratulate him for challenging his parents on whom he should marry. It sounds like it was handled in a diplomatic manner, although I'm sure the situation presented its share of challenges at times. Best wishes for a beautiful life together (and perhaps gorgeous mixed babies ;-).

    LL: I enjoyed reading your response to my opinion about make-or-break traits in choosing a mate. I'd just like to comment (and I'm going to be controversial here) that men "compromise" and "lower their standards" for romance and sex while women tend to be a lot more discerning with whom they involve themselves with. We're hard-wired that way; men historically have gone out to "spread their seed" while women have reproductive limits and biological clocks. I think I can speak for most women and say that I'm not going to waste my time dating someone I don't see as relationship material. This is a human issue, however, not an Indian issue. The Indian part of the equation is just an additional layer of complexity because of parents, resumes, and cultural taboos. It's hard enough to find someone that you have amazing chemistry with; add the pressure of finding someone who is also great on paper and pickings become very slim. Indians are more pragmatic about finding a mate and look for specifics like race and education, while Westerners tend to broaden their nets to catch someone they feel compatible with. For me, this means intelligence, attractiveness, integrity, ambition, attitude, kindness, and open-mindedness. If I happened to meet someone who had these traits whom I felt very attracted to, it would not be a deal-breaker if he also happened to be much older/younger, and divorced with kids. If I have found a love for a person that is unparalleled, then it IS the best deal. It may not who I have been shopping for, but I wouldn't throw it away either.

    You also mentioned that Western dating sites have low success rates, which I agree with. I also believe that arranged marriages are a terrible idea. Both avenues most likely have the missing element that possesses the glue that binds: sexual chemistry. This article in the link below is fascinating...and I think, sums it all up. Everyone has their individual set of preferences, and I know for me, chemistry is near the top of my list.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=20071228-000001&page=1

    ReplyDelete
  129. I am also dating an Indian-born man who is my junior. Apparently I'm not as rare as I thought :) Thanks for this insight into Indian men. I saw my bf in some of your comments. He is in India right now visiting family before we make the big jump. Oh and did I mention I'm white,divorced, and have three kids lol. Wish us luck ;) Ali G

    ReplyDelete
  130. This comment or question is for Stacy a couple comments up from mine. I have to say I did not go into this with my eyes open. In fact I had never met an Indian before meeting my now boyfiend. Very small town girl, however it has been a wonderful year and I can only hope he is one of the strong ones. He has been in India for 6 weeks and as far as I know has not become engaged or married( shocking how much that happens on vacation) He still writes to me religiously and has called me once. From my point of view we have a lot to discuss. Now for the question lol You commented that you have done so much to have his parents like you. I am a divorced mother of three who they would have never picked for their first born, intelligent, well educated son. Am I being naive to think that they won't have a huge influence on us because we live here and they live in India? Also he never told me he was marrying an Indian girl when we met. We weren't looking for marriage, but he made it clear he does not look at color or culture just heart.
    Thanks
    Ali G

    ReplyDelete
  131. I have been reading this blog for the last couple of days, and I ran across anonymous or named by LL Indian guy engaged to American girl's comment on 5.1.2007. I have to comment I know I shouldn't but I have to.
    I'm actually sad at what you said. You are not happy in this relationship it seems, but possibly not happy in life either. I don't think athelist was the way to go why not mix Christian and Hindu read the bible and the Bhagavad Gita together. Either way calling her a b==== isn't going to get you far with her parents, and although I don't know any Indian girls I don't think it will work in your arranged marriage. One more thing, no one said arranged marriage had to be bad whatever you choose please treat the woman your with with respect. You will get so much back in return. We want to give all our love and attention to a good man.
    Thanks for listening I hope.
    Ali G

    ReplyDelete
  132. I've read both parts I and II of dating Indian men, as well as the blog. Since there is very little (if any) published literature on this topic, I appreciate all of your insights and honesty. Yet I have a situation that I have not seen any dialogue about.

    First, similar to LL, I choose to retain some privacy for my situation. Because I want your thoughts (or thoughts of other Indians whom you consult), I will provide some basic information but will ask that you infer the rest. I am a highly educated, successful non-Indian woman who has been divorced for several years. I have two children. For years I've been friends and spent time with an Indian man who is the same age as me and who lived in the US for more than 12 years. We have started dating casually. He has been divorced for a few years and has no children I met his parents. What are the cultural guidelines (restrictions, attitudes) about divorced Indian men marrying again? Of course I will talk with him about this....but I wanted other perspectives before I broach the topic. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  133. peacewithall,

    Firstly, thanks for not commenting as anonymous. Too many anonymous comment here. I wish people would at least stick in a flase name in the nickname field when commenting.

    Regarding your question - divorced Indian men do get married all the time. There are no restrictions to their getting married. However, considering that everybody in India - both men and women - are looking for young people who have never been married, I suspect that divorced men don't have an easy time finding a partner.

    The fact that your bf is a divorcee, is the same age as you and has been living in the US for 12 years, works in your favor. You may still have to deal with some cultural differences, especially with his family - if he is close to them and if they are a typical Indian family. You might be in a better position to judge this as you have already met his parents.

    Does that answer your question? Good luck and I hope things work out well for all of you.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  134. Libran Lover,
    I want to thank your blog for the insight into dating Indian Men. I saw your above post about not signing in as Anonymous, and forgive me I'm new to this blog thing so I wasn't sure how to do it. I hope I was able to do it this time. Although I don't think your comment to peacefulwithal was completely about me I think some of it was so let me say my boyfriend has wrote me and said they are so rude over here. Thanks to you I can now write back don't worry they are here too!

    ReplyDelete
  135. LL- yes that answers my question. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  136. to clarify my last post, s= peacewithall

    ReplyDelete
  137. Hi there Ali G, I am thoroughly interested in your situation. My first question is how long is he going to be in India? I always say that I only speak from my own experience and I am really happy when someone proves me wrong..ok maybe not happy, but happy to add to my knowledge. So, my second question is how old is your boyfriend? I ask these questions b/c if he has been living in the US for awhile he might be more independent than the average indian when it comes to his family. I would say that your situation rests completely with your boyfriend. I would expect his parents to have problems, your not indian, your divorced, you have kids, they didn't choose you. But it all comes down to your man...does he have the ability to stand up to them? It simply isn't in their culture to stand up to them, but this is not always the case.
    On the thing about him writing everyday and calling, I don't think he is getting married or anything, but you might ask him in an e-mail if his parents are having him meet any prospective brides, this being their oldest, and highly educated male child, he is their "cash cow" (not to be rude, just blunt) and he will be expected to take care of them and will also fetch a good wife and maybe even a high dowry if his parents do that (more than I like to think still do those). They placed all their eggs in his basket so to speak and if you are at the stage of talking about marriage then these are tough situations you might have to deal with. Even my fiancee was asked to meet with prospective wives upon his first visit to India after we began dating (they didn't know about me yet) and he calmly made up an excuse about getting through school before dealing with a wife, even then, over the course of several years he got a number of people trying to contact him through e-mail and one indian who lived in the US even went to India to meet with his father. This particular situation is the one that broke the camels back and he told them to stop searching for a wife, he had already found one. I think I have failed until this point to mention that Indian parents are pretty darn pushy. So, the best advice I can give you is please just talk to him very openly, don't hesistate to ask the tough questions, start with the good old "where is this headed talk" and if he says that is could head to marriage, then just start questioning him about his family, their beliefs, their role in his life, the expectations of him, etc. Don't get mad or go crazy, just a good long talk and get it all out, you will either feel better or be running for the hills, and he might have similar questions about you and your family...I know better than most that the american family can be just as difficult in these situations. I really would ask about if he is having meetings with possible wives, not like he cheating or anything, it is an excellent way to gauge a lot of these things. If he isn't then they aren't pushing him and you have time to resolve these issues, if he is then they are the typical dominant indian parents and you are now pushed for a heart to heart, and if they ask him to meet women and he says no...you are very lucky and should be over-joyed, he sounds like one of the good ones. I too am from a small town and hadn't met an indian until I went to graduate school, I know how hard it is to get all this, I learn things constantly that blow my mind about this culture, asking questions a lot helps, even if it sounds stupid, just ask a lot of questions, the more you understand it, not only the better you deal with it, but when it does come time to meet his folks, they will be much more likely to approve of you if you have a grasp on things. These are my warnings, I too am engaged to the oldest male, highly educated, I know what your in for. Please let me know how things are going, not to add another cliche to my rant, but knowledge is power, the more you understand about the culture, the more power you have over your role in the relationship and his family! Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  138. Oh, Ali G, I also forgot to address what you asked about his parents not being an influence b/c they live in India...I would say that is a case to case thing, but I would never count out the tremendous effect of a guilt trip. If he doesn't call or e-mail often enough then he gets weeping phone calls about how miserable his mother is without talking to her precious baby boy...you may recognize this tactic as something your own parents may have employed (goodness knows mine did). If he does call and e-mail often enough then they get plenty of time to get their opinions in..over and over again. So, you will be suprised how the Indian family in India can be involved with every aspect of his life. If I had dime for everytime my fiancee got a call from his father saying his mother had been crying for 3 days b/c he hasn't called in a week, I would be rich enough to support them! For your own sanity just accept now that they want to control his life whether he lives across the world or not and they will try, remember it is in the indian culture for the parents to have complete control, so in their society they aren't asking for too much. I hope that answers your questions.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Stacy,
    Thanks so much for the insight into dating an indian man. My boyfriend is in Banglore right now working, so he is away from his family and has been in contact everyday. He will be returning next week, and we will definately have one of those where is this relationship going after a couple weeks of getting to know each other again. I planned this for my kids as much as me. To answer some of your questions he is considerably younger than me, but older in other ways. I am 35(don't look it thank heavens lol) and he is 27. I know and have known that he was giving up a lot to be with me. I'm not sure how I feel about being considered the problem in the family. A marriage and children should be joy and the fact that it isn't that way with Indian families unless it is with the "right" woman is sad.
    Thanks again any info would be great
    Ali G

    ReplyDelete
  140. answer me this all you american ladies if ali g's boyfriends parents advice him not to get married to her are they doing right thing or not?

    ali g is 35 yo woman with 3 children already from other man or more than one man. she think she does not look like 35 yo but after 3 children she most def has fat ass and loose tits. she most def not intelligent also or she won't be stuck with not just one or two but THREE children out of wedlock. so she not have good education or great job or money. what she got to offer the 27 yo indian guy? love?

    there are hundreds thousands girls in india who are younger, never married, no kids baggage, intelligent, educated, good supporting family background, who can give love plus much better quality of life for ali g's bf. so why he should marry ali g? why she is not wrong choice for him? why his family should not advice him to dump her?

    sorry if I sound harsh but this is reality. ali g's bf is lonely indian bachelor in america. poor guy may be just attracted to ali g for some companionship. for that reason he should have burden of a middle age woman and her 3 children from other men? is that fair? see previous comment of ali g - "I planned this for my kids as much as me." she plan to trap this guy for her kids and for herself. not for the sake of this guy. not for love. this is blatant entrapment. then how she honestly think she is not problem for this guy?

    if she marry him will they have more children? how her bf will support so many people alone? how he can take responsibility of children of other men? is it fair to make 27 yo man father of 3 children suddenly? children who are not even his own?

    if ali g truly love this guy she should leave him herself voluntary. of if that guy has lil intelligence he should leave her. but don't say it is his mistake if he leave her. he is doing the right thing. if all you people think if he is not doing right thing, tell me why? if all you people think his family is wrong to advice him to leave ali g, tell me why? if you people think ali g is right lady to be his wife, tell me why?

    this not question of indian culture or indian family interfering in sons life. this is simple question of a man's best choice for his happiness.

    ali g say - "A marriage and children should be joy and the fact that it isn't that way with Indian families unless it is with the "right" woman is sad." what? will ali g be happy to marry wrong dumb man with no money and find joy looking after his three children from other women? no ali g won't be happy doing that. so why she expect her bf or his family be happy to marry her and look after her 3 children?

    again sorry to be harsh but this is reality and truth. this is fair. if I am wrong tell why I am wrong? or show this comment to ali g's bf and ask if this is wrong and what he think.

    ReplyDelete
  141. hi there counter-point, it's always good to get the other side. You should pay more attention to your rants, Ali G never said she had any children out of wedlock, you also have no idea what she looks like, so to remark on these things is completely inappropriate and makes your argument look rather weak. Who are you to say what is best for her boyfriend? I can understand his parents having an opinion, but are you his father? If you are, please ask your son to give you a lesson in grammar.

    On your argument (what I could understand of it) blended families are pretty common here and it is not uncommon for a woman to marry a man and already have children, therefore, I don't think she is trapping him. She would be trapping him if they dated and got married and then she told him she had kids, that is trapping. I think the boyfriend is a big boy, and according to ali g, pretty educated, you think he isn't smart enough to figure out if he does or doesn't want to be with a divorced mother? You have an awful low opinion of Indian men. And there are a lot of perfectly nice indian woman, however your comment about them giving him a better quality of life is completely subjective and up to individual opinion and obviously I'm really not agreeing with yours.
    How will he take care of them? Well, if he's an educated person then the chances of him having a decent job are high and I think he might be able to figure out if his salary is sufficient for a large family, again, you shouldn't have such a low opinion of indian men.
    In conclusion, I've stated that the problem in a lot of these situations is the failure of one side to to the other sides point of view, and you are an excellent example. Try understanding american culture before you accuse a person of having some evil plot to catch a unsuspected indian man. Like I've said before the myth of the evil indian parents is no more true than the myth of the evil american woman looking to snatch an indian man, it's all miscommunication. Good luck with that grammar problem.

    ReplyDelete
  142. Nice Stacy. I couldn't have said it better myself. I was going to comment, but I thought why comment to ignorant people who have their own agenda anyway. I did want to clear up one thing I was married for 13 years to a very selfish man. Not unlike counterpoint jk I have 3 great kids from that marriage and my boyfriend knew about them before he asked me out. Oh and yes he was the one who pursued me and before you start counterpoint not that it is any of your business but my boyfriend and I agree we will be waiting for marriage to consumate this relationship, so the companionship is purely platonic not unlike the indian women that could give him a better life lol
    Ok I'm done I guess I did have to respond ;)
    Ali G

    ReplyDelete
  143. hi stacy
    my grammar & if Im ali g's bf's father is not main point of this topic. so I will not reply to that.

    your argument abt is that it is very common for many people in america to eat unhealthy mcdonald food. so it is okay to eat it instead of healthy food. also if someone is educated and has good income he can eat mcdonald instead of good food becos he can pay hospital bill. I think this example is clear for you bcos you sound like smart lady.

    for young man good quality life with new wife is to enjoy at least 2 yrs of life together without disturbance from three ready-made children. free to travel with wife any time any where. with no pressure of extra cost. free to make love with wife any time anywhere in house. all this not possible with big ready-made family with 5 people already.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Hi Counter Point,
    I do understand your example completely, unfortunately it doesn't prove your point. Whether or no they eat mcdonald's or healthy food is up to the person, they know the consequences of eating that stuff and they make the decision. And the whole idea of a rich man being able to eat mcdonald's b/c he can pay for health care is ridiculous and in no way compares to anything I have said. I believe what I said was that when someone is deciding whether or not to get married they basically decide if they can afford it...kids or not, well, at least intelligent people consider this. So, if ali g's boyfriend is intelligent he would consider whether or not he can support a family of 5, much like he would decide whether or not he can afford for his wife to get pregnant if he had a traditional indian marriage. So, mcdonald's really doesn't cut it.

    Also, your explanation of good quality of life is nothing more than an over-generalization. Maybe this man really loves these kids, maybe he wants to take care of these kids...one thing is for sure you aren't the authority on all men, you are the authority on what you would do, nothing more, nothing less. Seeing children as a burden is very sad, and based on your opinion, you are finding children a burden. These types of prejudices are scary, this type of simple minded thinking is what blogs like this are meant to remedy, not propagate. My own children will be half indian and I would be more than a little upset with anyone spreading to my children this type of thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Hi stacy,
    your problem like many intelligent peoples is to think all peoples are like you. no madam all are not like you.

    I am not thinking children always as burden.one baby is also big responsibility. sometime in life all and every responsibility appear to be burden. three children is much bigger responsibility.if you are not real father for that three children it still more bigger responsibility. plus if you are having one or two children your own making total five it is big bigger responsibility. it all add up madam.

    you are intelligent and also idealistic. so you are saying all this. think like common man then you will know what all I am saying. yes what all I am saying is simple minded. lot of common peoples in the world are simple minded and life is also simple madam.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Sir, unfortunately you're problem is the need to over-generalize. What is true for one person is not always true for another. I am idealistic and intelligent and it would appear at least the person in questions (ali g's boyfriend) is also intelligent, therefore, I am qualified to think on his level. I spoke to my fiancee about this after your last post, he suggests that you read V.S. Naipaul, and pay close attention to the underdeveloped ego of the indian man. There are a lot of simple people in the world, but there is a difference between simple and simple-minded. Like I stated before my fiancee's parents arranged for his engagment to an indian woman who could give him this great quality of life you're clinging to so hard and they really messed up, not only was she petty and mean to him, but she cheated on him, all this when they were only engaged, imagine how horrible she would have been to be married to. The perfect indian woman who can provide a great quality of life is a myth and an over-generalization, learn to judge situations on a case by case basis and you will have much stronger arguments in the future.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Counter Point your previous statement of

    ...answer me this all you american ladies if ali g's boyfriends parents advice him not to get married to her are they doing right thing or not?...

    I am an African American woman that happens to be be engaged to an Indian Man. I am a sigle mother of one. To answer your question, if Ali G's BF parents advised him not to marry her that is neither a good or bad thing; it is their opinion. Who are you to set the value/level of his happiness?

    I have been with my significant other for over two years and his family has just now accepted the fact that he is his own person and at 38 years of age he is going to do what he feels is right. If you are Indian, I am sure you know the things that go on with regards to trying to keep outsiders on the outside. I don't understand the culture fully, and I will not bag on what other people do. However when family disowns or turns their backs on a loved one because he/she chooses to marry/love a person that was not hand selected for them, I would say that is putting to much energy into negativity.

    Ali G, my advice to you is to do what you feel is best for you. I know when the news of my relationship was revealed, the BLEEP hit the fan. My sweetie continues to deal with others opinions but he does so in a respectful manner. If your BF starts to encounter such actions, please be supportive.

    ReplyDelete
  148. So I recently met an Indian guy as I waited for my connecting flight in Chicago. We've been talking for a week, and he says the most affectionate things to me. They are so affectionate (such as him imagining my face as he close his eyes at night, etc.) that I just get surprised. He also says he really likes me, but somehow I feel like it's quite soon to really like each other because we just met. Please comment on any of this part of my post if you could. It's hard to make my thoughts coherent b/c this interaction with an Indian guy is new to me.

    Also, he's a successful techie guy. I guess I'm wondering how much time do successful Indian guys really give to girls they like? He claims he really likes me, but he hasnt answered my mail for about two days. I don't want to be demanding, but I don't want to be too submissive to the situation either.

    Lastly, what can you say about fidelity, in general, about Indian guys? Sure, I know that guys naturally like girls, but there are also cultures and social status that influence one's view of fidelity.

    Oh, and he mentioned to me that he really feels as if we're meant to be. He feels relieved to know that God made someone who he feels is a match for him. I'm not used to this kind of talk, so I don't know what to make of it. He's a Hindu Brahmin too, but spent his younger years (he's in his late 20's now) in Europe. I don't know if Brahmin guys act differently or what.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Filipina,

    Here're my responses to your questions:

    1. Two types of guys express too much affection and love too soon - naive, inexperienced guys going through a big crush or players who simply say what they think girls like to hear. In either case, you have to ask them slow down and take it easy.

    2. As I have described in this blog, Indians - both men and women - do tend to get emotionally involved faster than say Americans because until recently there was no concept of casual dating in India. So, you had to get into a full-on relationship with someone before you could date them. You say that your friend spent his younger years in Europe - so, I am surprised that he would behave like Indians who grew up in India.

    3. How much time a guy spends on a girl depends more on his social situation and his personality, than on the culture. In my experience, when someone is really interested in you (like this guy claims to be), they will be more available and respond quicker. But, there are a couple of exceptions:
    - Some people respond quicker on one mode of communication than another. Each person has their preferred mode of communication on which they are most responsive.
    - Guys in general are notorious for being irregular communicators, especially via email and phone.
    - People do go through some periods when they are extremely busy or ill, and can't get to personal emails, etc.

    4. Anecdotal evidence regarding fidelity among Indians suggests that they tend to extremes. They are either very committed or very promiscuous. Further anecdotal evidence suggests that Indians are especially promiscuous with foreigners (particularly Westerners) since they don't consider them as serious relationship prospects. But when involved in a serious relationship, Indians are generally very committed and expect the same from you.

    From what you have written I get the sense that your friend is over-enthusiastic about you. You have to ask him to slow down, take it easy, and see how things turn out.

    Hope this helps.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  150. Thanks for your response LL! It both helped in my specific situation, but it also raised new curiosities.

    I find Indian guys very attractive, mostly based on their smarts. Oftentimes I have an urge to talk to them, but I'm simply too shy to do so. I think I have my mental capabilities too: I'm an aspiring Genetics/Biotechnology gradiate student, and love politics and philosophy (and I mean, really love them & good at them). Despite all this, I just don't know how to open up a conversation with them. What do many (I'm careful w/ my quantitative description here) of them like? History? Cooking? Talks about culture? The old country? Music? For example, Filipinos are proud of their food and hospitality, and it's a common ice-breaker.

    I'm also curious about the general perception of how respectable, educated women should act. Some of the Indians guys I've met are just so serious and reserved, and on the opposite end are more socially outgoing than I'm used to. What is considered a graceful way to act for a female, both at the period of pre getting-to-know-each other, and during? For example, I know many Filipino guys who like smart girls, but not to the point that the girl has really snappy wits.

    Furthermore, I want to know the general attitude of Indian guys toward non-Indian Asians. I'm Filipina, so I'm more light olive-skinned, have thick & wavy hair, and have medium-thickness lips. In my country, people LOVE the Korean, Japanese, Chinese look (I've only been thought of looking Japanese/Spanish/Turkish), and I'm wondering if there's a slight preference toward certain non-Indian Asian women for Indian guys.

    I also have opinions on a lot of things. I love healthy discussions of almost about anything. Having the impression that a lot of Indian guys are smart, I hope I'm not wrong to think that being opinionated is a good thing? Or perhaps this is more of a gender issue than a cultural one? Perhaps a little bit of both?

    I know a lot of my questions are reaching over to individual preferences, but I'm curious if there are basic commonalities among Indian males.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Filipina,

    It is not that Indian guys are serious. It is just that Indians are not as good at breaking the social ice with strangers as Westerners are (at least in my experience). However, once the ice is broken, Indians are very friendly, just like most other Asians. The best way to get an Indian talking is to ask him/her a couple of questions about India, its culture, cuisine, movies, etc. This is assuming that the Indian has moved from India to wherever you are. If the Indian was born and brought up in the country where you are, I don't know if talking about India would get her/him to talk much. Are you in the US?

    How a respectable, educated woman should act with Indian men? From what little I know of Filipino culture, I think you'll be fine if you act just the way a respectable, educated woman would act in the Philippines. I think Philippines is more Westernized than India, but that is still alright. Indian guys can handle that. :-)

    General attitude of Indians towards non-Indian Asians? I think Indians have the same attitude as all other Asians. What I have noticed in the US is that, most Asians are more friendly and accepting towards Westerners than they are towards other Asians from a different country. For example, Chinese are more friendly towards Americans than towards Indians. The same attitude goes for Indians also. That does NOT mean Indians are hostile towards other Asians. In general, if you are friendly towards them, they will be friendly with you.

    In my experience, Indians are more attracted towards women who look like Indians. Westerners term this as the mid-East features. Indians are most attracted towards women who have mid-East features WITH fair skin. That being said, men are men everywhere. They will be attracted to a well-groomed, pretty lady no matter what her ethnicity is.

    How being opinionated affects your standing with a guy depends on a combination of culture, gender and personal factors of the guy. So, it is hard to predict. For me personally, smart and opinionated women are a turn-on. But a woman who constantly needs to prove herself and/or puts others down is a big turn-off. I also know guys who become hostile in the presence of highly opinionated women.

    Hope that answers your questions. My final advice is that if you want to approach Indians (or anybody else for that matter), just be your normal friendly self and see how things go. There is no substitute for giving it a try and seeing how things go. And, there is really no need to be extra cautious. After all, you will be happiest with people who accept you as you are, right?

    If you want to discuss further details, feel free to email me: libranlover-at-gma1l-d0t-c0m. It is hard to have a lot of back-and-forth interaction on this blog comment system. Especially when it has reached 150+ comments.

    Cheers,
    LL

    ReplyDelete
  152. Hi,

    Came across your blog and find it very interesting. It has explained some things about the man I am currently dating and has been helpful.

    I am a white woman and I have been dating an Indian man for about 2 months now. He is kind and I like him very much. I know he has told his friends about me but only that we are friends and I have never met them, which is fine because we have only been dating for a couple of months. I briefly met his room mate who is Indian and a co-worker of his that is non-Indian.

    I have never been married and have no children but I am 2 years older then him. I have brought up the relationship issue and differences in our backgrounds. He indicated that although it might be a problem with his family it is not a problem for him. I do have a couple of questions for you.

    Do you think it would be inappropriate for me to ask if his family is looking to arrange a marriage for him? I do not want to be overly presumptuous in asking this too soon.

    Also do you think the age difference is going to be an issue with his family?

    What would be some signs that he is interested in more then just dating?

    ReplyDelete
  153. Hi LL

    Your blog on dating Indian men is very balanced and informative. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I also greatly appreciate your patience in reminding other (largely female) bloggers that a number of characteristics that they consider "Indian", are in fact cross-cultural male traits.

    I thought I'd share my experiences as an Indian male who has dated American women in the past and eventually married one who is 8 years older.

    - I faced HUGE resistance from my parents when I told them about my then American girlfriend (who is now married to me). As many bloggers have pointed out, this is the norm rather than the exception. My parents resorted to a number of devious and ugly tactics to break us up. However, instead of caving and dumping my girlfriend, I fought my parents for 2 years because I thought it was just plain wrong to break up because my parents disapproved of a girl who they'd never met. Eventually, we got married and over a period of time my parents have come to terms with my marriage. In fact, my wife and parents get along quite nicely now.

    Indian males:: If you know you are with the right girl and want a long term relationship, it is your responsibility to convince your parents about her. Be a man about it and talk openly. Try to tell your parents that a lot of their misgivings are unfounded. Arrange for them to meet.

    American females:: Hang in there. Time heals. Just make sure that your Indian boyfriend is making a genuine effort to bridge the obvious cultural gap between you and his birth family. It is your job to delicately coax him along.

    - Most Indian people who have never visited the US view American culture through the filter of the media. Drugs, free raunchy sex, fast cars, easy money and so on. For this, I place the blame squarely on how the US projects itself in the rest of the world.

    American females:: Please consider this point when interacting with Indian men. They are from a radically different culture and everything they ever learned about the US was either on TV or in books. Do try and educate them.

    Indian males:: Look around you. In many aspects, the US is very similar to urban India. People work jobs, raise families, go on vacation, attend school and university, celebrate festivals etc. At the same time, there is visible poverty, crime and unhappiness in people's lives. It's a lot like India guys. Try and understand this...it will be much easier to integrate.

    - Another major issue between my wife and me is that of finances. In Indian families, money is considered more of a joint family asset. There were times when my parents sent me money when I was a grad student, and at other times I sent them money because they needed a little extra for a down payment. The important point here is that the monies may not be explicitly accounted for in Indian families. My wife has always had difficulties wrapping her head around my seemingly intangible financial obligations. For her, it is hard to figure what is "our" money and how much we owe my parents. To me, "our" may include my parents depending on how badly they need the money.

    It is also true that the Indian male is often expected to send money back to his parents. Why? Because there is no social safety net (health insurance, Medicare etc) in India and his parents may need that money REAL BAD in a medical emergency.

    - As a final note to both Indian males and American females. Remember that you are in a cross-cultural relationship. Both of you are going to HAVE to appreciate the other's point of view and find a middle ground. It is neither fair or healthy for an American female to expect that her Indian mate will complete disavow his cultural roots and family ties and magically transform into a normal American male. Similarly, an Indian male should not expect his American partner to become a docile "bahu" who will spend the rest of her life raising kids and looking after her in-laws. Both of you are going to have to work at it, possibly harder than you would have if you were with someone from your own culture.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Hi. Your straight-forward 'explanations'are extremely objective, and forth-right. It was almost funny... like a guide. With that said, I really need to remember a lot of what you said when dating Indian men. I often forget about these 'differences' because I have spent a lot of time with family in the Caribbean -- where this kind of 'mix-up' is quite common. Furthermore, being mixed myself, I tend to forget even more. Indian men in the Caribbean seem to be much different than then ones in the US (from India).I think I need to take these blinders off.

    My experience in dating Indian men in the US has been very trying and in the end very disappointing. Yet I keep 'trying.' I can't help it; that is who I am attracted to (I think it's a familial thing). However, the Indian guys I've dealt with in the US seem to only go so far with me (i.e., it ain't that serious). I find that everything is cool and grand up to a certain point, then POW, their minds change. It's really hard to speak on this because it has been hurtful; also I don't want to generalize. I think -- and I may be wrong -- that when they realize that I am looking at them for a 'normal' relationship (i.e., serious, long-term, bonding) and not just a sexual escapade, the interest seems to wane, if not cease. That's a harsh thing to deal with -- especially given the complexity of my background. I see it as my 'own' rejecting me, whereas I don't think they see it like that at all. I'm trying to be understanding (for many of the reasons you mentioned), but in the end, maybe these individuals were just jerks! :-p

    However, I was hoping that the experience would be different while actually IN India (I will be staying there for work for awhile, soon) -- however, I am not so sure. I'm afraid it might even be 'worse'in India. I am almost ready to say, I won't date Indian men anymore... just be friends or colleagues. Yet that is so hard to do, given my background and personal preferences. Who knows?? We'll see; but I will definitely keep your lucid advice in mind (to the front of my brain) before I fall for another Desi dude :-p

    And by the way, as far as South Asian guys in the states, I had one very loving and kind (and very serious) guy... who saw me as much more like him than not (in all areas... including ethnically & in terms of phenotype). He was not Indian though; He was Sri Lankan (who grew up in the states). I messed up on that one :-p

    Oh well, I'll look forward to some further dialogue on this issue, from you, of course, and/or anyone who can offer opinions, experience and discourse.

    The world is getting smaller. I'm glad we can talk about these things. It is necessary. :-)Besides, even though this brand of relationship & mixing SEEMS new... it is actually very ancient and in our histories.

    ReplyDelete
  155. Rachael,

    Sorry for responding to your comment so late. This month has been super busy for me. Here are my answers to your questions:

    1. It would not be inappropriate to ask him if his family is arranging his wedding. Most Indians won't be offended by questions regarding their marriage.

    2. As far as his family is concerned, I think the bigger issue would be simply the fact that you are a foreigner, than that you are 2 years older than him. If they can accept you as a foreigner, from there it is a simple step to accept the age difference.

    3. As to the signs that he is interested in you for more than just dating, it is very hard for me to generalize and say from this distance. It just depends on how each individual relationship progresses. However, I can tell you based on the many experiences I have heard from other foreign women dating Indian guys - don't assume anything based on merely signs. Until he tells you openly and assertively that he is committed to you, you cannot be sure of it.

    Hope that helps.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  156. my_two_cents,

    Thanks much for dropping by and taking time to post your excellent comment. I applaud your commitment to your love and convictions, in face of stiff opposition. Best wishes for a long, happy and contented life with your loved on.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  157. Sonja,

    Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment. I'm sorry to hear that most of your experiences with Indian men have not been good. Here's hoping that you'll have better experiences with them in the future.

    Great to hear you'll be spending some time in India soon. Sounds like your first visit there? I'm sure it will be very exciting. Just be careful and take good care of yourself.

    If you'd like to write to me personally, my email address is posted on the top right-hand corner of my blog in the 'About Me' box. I'm always happy to hear from my readers.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  158. Hi

    This is a very cool blog. I am chinese who dated an indian guy for a couple of months. We worked together two years before we started dating. We had a great time together. :) Too bad he has to go home to get married. I do feel bad because I do know that he wants to be with me but he can't. oh well, if you truely love someone, let him do what he wants to do. If it is meant to be, it will be. Best of luck in Life and Love, everyone!

    ReplyDelete
  159. Moonwalkbird,

    That is a very graceful way of reacting to a situation which must no doubt be disappointing and painful for you. I admire your equanimity. Best of luck to you also.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  160. Great articles Libran. I am finding myself seriously interested in a delicious Indian man. I probably fall into the ‘undesirable’ category for his family as I have been married before and do have children. However, he is also divorced from a longish marriage to a non-Indian woman, they did not have children. He has lived extensively in the US with his former wife and other family members who are still there. So perhaps his family is more liberal than usual?

    As this culture isn’t one I have ever been involved in romantically before, how do you know when an Indian man is seriously interested in you?

    SassyGal

    ReplyDelete
  161. Actually, I think I just answered my own question lol. I was remembering a conversation we had about me not finishing a science degree due to my life circumstances at that time....and he replied he would be honoured to support my children and I so that I could finish my degree.

    That HAS to be seriously interested! Hope so anyway. After reading this blog I have heaps of questions to put to him.

    SassyGal

    ReplyDelete
  162. Calculus & Chemistry keep me single!4/16/2008 06:09:00 PM

    How great it is to live in the United State of America, especially for us Indians! We can't even get laid in India very easily if we tried very hard. You get to get laid with an American if you pretend to be some nice dude for the first three dates; after that, you don't even need to be like some good guy. She will be like "ahh! my life, will never be the same, boy...blah blah blah." We would finally dump her, for we are all the greatest and the most civilized and the most humane of all human beings--Hindus! Ta Da!


    Isn't Love great!
    Once people start sleeping together, and keep exchanging personal fantasies, they end up in something called "Love." And that phenomenon will last only as long the guy and the girl have sex together; if they separate for a month, they will be sleeping with other people who they have met online. Finally, we end up falling in Love with at least a dozen people from the opposite sex. Each of us is just "one more person for the other."

    Is Love great? I think one thing's for sure: "You can't f*%$# a woman and say you Love her." Love can only exist as long one chooses to abandon the concept of Lust, which is not very likely, especially for us, the perverts, the deluded, the Males!


    If Love is what people think it is, then it is the most idiotic delusion ever made up by humans--seriously, even more idiotic than organized religion!



    Love,

    Adi

    ReplyDelete
  163. ok....so i think i might have to strangest story u may have encountered...at least i havent met anyone else in my predicament.

    first of all i am multi-racial (white/japanese/n. american) and i am sikh. a non-indian sikh isnt exactly that strange but my situation lies deaper. i am not just a sikh, but i have become "indianized" as my desi friends and i joke about. but seriously i am, as many of my desi friends claim, an indian trapped in a white body confused about how to live as a traditional indian in american culture. to explain, i find myself becoming more into a "traditonal indian" but yet i still fall back into american culture as in drinking, dating, and going to the movies with a group of guys or black people(things highly frowned upon in indian society). however, alot of my actions and decisions are based on the opinion of indian society. i am very secretive of my social life, finding myself hiding from desis if im with a certain crowd or appearance (such as wearing a mini skirt or looking like a rolled out of bed). yes, that does not sound like someone with a "tradtional indian" mind set, but like other U.S. born desis, there r 2 sides of the situation. ive also found myself to become as other desi girls who guys claim to be "snoby" or "too picky", but i have realized that indian girls must be this way or otherwise be taken advantage of and risk gaining a "bad" reputation within the indian community. first entering into the culture a few years ago, i was niave and dated a plethora of indian men, only to be taken advantage of, feeling empty and heart broken. from what i have learned over the years, i was able to laugh at the reality of your article. i have realised too that i prefer to marry a jatt sikh punjabi. A jatt due to the indians communtiy opinion. although im not biologically an idian, i am from a wealthy family, as most local desis know, highly educated, very popular and highly involved w/in desi community, maintained a good rep. amongst most punjabis, and many claim im very beautiful. therefor, many expect me to marry a jatt if i am to marry an indian. my parents also expect me to marry someone with a certain amount of wealth or at least have a realistic ambition for a highly succesful future.

    so here i am, a white desi, mind of an american raised desi in a white body, causing to find a commited relationship difficult to find. many of the aunties are excited about arranging my marriage to an indian. however, most of the younger mundas here view me as an impossible match due to my biological background. i have been offered dozens of marriage proposals but they have been either from fobs to gain citizenship or of very low castes. not that i particularly care about castes but again rep. and acceptance from my own family are important.
    Recently, ive placed myself in a further predicament. i just went on a date with one of my friends who ive been talking to for a fiew months and we get along great, unfortunatly, he is a Hindu Patel (Guju)- and not exactly succesful enough for my parents- working for his parents at a small hotel. if i were to ever marry a guju, it would also look bad amongst the community at the gurdwara, and most importantly to me, a very close aunty and a few of my friends. I really dont want to risk a "bad" rep. for dating anyone and im tired of meaningless relationships. i dont even know if HIS parents would accept me, we've only talked about how some of his cousins have married white people... and he is the steriotypical indian man. What do you think about my situation? do u think i should persue my guju friend, find a sikh, or just allow the gurdwara to arrange my marriage (which i accept if i do not find love)? do u think ill even be able to marry an indian man? lol....life is so confusing....

    ams1python

    ReplyDelete
  164. ams1python,

    If you go back and read your comment, you'd find that a significant part of it refers to you doing things and behaving in a certain way for the approval, acceptance or admiration of others.

    I don't know how old you are physically, but emotionally and mentally, you seem to be rather young. You are not ready for a marriage yet. Don't worry too much about marriage at this point of time. Just live life and be happy. Let it happen when it will happen.

    Meanwhile, take time to find out exactly what type of a person YOU want to marry. For now, leave aside concerns of what others will think, if they will approve, etc. Find out exactly what you want and what you will be happy about.

    Hope that helps.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  165. I am married to an Indian; love him very deeply. We have one child together. He has overcome so many cultural obstacles and I am extremely proud of him in so many aspects.

    However,

    I am divorced previously and have a few kids. They lived with their father for the most part , but now reside with us full-time.

    My husband told me at any cost, his family is not to know about my other kids.

    This is scaring me a whole lot.

    Will I ever be able to encourage my husband to be forthright enough with his family? I am not forcing him at this point, but seriously, the day is going to come when his family will find out and I am scared about what will happen to our marriage; or worse, to him.

    I have met his parents and we get along wonderfully. I feel a deep sense of shame not being able to open up and tell them about the other children. In some ways, I feel quite violated by this.

    Once our child is old enough to speak, I am fearful of what my husband might ultimately do.

    His friends, family, nobody knows. I feel anxious and restless and hopeless and dont know what to expect when the inevitable happens.

    We have been together over 8 years; married over 4 years and have a young child on the brink of talking.

    His friends, I have met, his parents I have met, all love me.

    We have overcome so many obstacles, but how will we overcome this one?

    My heart aches for him, because I know it will be tough to explain, my heart aches for my children who dont understand WHY they cant know his family and them to know my kids. My heart rips open almost everyday, because I don't know what to expect. Will the marriage make it, or will he try to run before all the truth comes out?

    ReplyDelete
  166. Hi,

    your relationship (marriage) reminds me of various Indian movies, in which the husband and wife try to hide many things from their families. I never knew I would hear about those stuff happening in real life.

    Most Indian parents don't like their sons to marry divorced women. Your case is truly an exception. I can understand your husband's situation (or do I?).

    "Will the marriage make it, or will he try to run before all the truth comes out?"

    WoW! That kind of tells me you have a bit of problems--real big problems! I thought your problem was about your older children not introduced to your in-laws. Your last sentence kind of tells me you have problems inside your marriage--or at least, that's how I interpreted it. By the way, where is he going to run? Obviously, you two agreed to this before you married, right?

    And how does your older children not being introduced to your in-laws relate to the marriage lasting or not lasting?

    I'm confused.

    Indian parents could take this seriously if they knew about the lies. I think your husband cares about you a lot; that's why he doesn't want to lose you or anything by opening up with his parents about your kids.

    But I could well be wrong about it, too.

    But it is still not clear why you never told his parents about the kids before you even married.

    After all, they are kids, which should bring happiness to the new family.

    Anyway, congrats on marrying an Indian! (isn't that like one in a million?)

    ReplyDelete
  167. Hey Guys...I have recently fell in love with an Indian man, but he is completely DIFFERENT from everything on here.


    For one, he is extremely extremely rich...his father is a big timer in the Bollywood Industry and he travels all over the world all the time so he isn't the conservative type at all. Him and his family are very modern. He seems very liberated and said that his parents had a "love marriage" and encourage him to have one too.


    2- he said that he has been intimate with other women already, though I am the first one he has been intimate with in the US. He has been here for only a couple years to study and his parents pay for everything. and YES, he tips when we go out, real well actually.


    I realy like him, and yes, we have been intimate...but we've known each other for about only a month and a half. Now, i feel like he still really likes me- he actually told me he loved me- but it seems he isn't acting as affectionate or close as before. He plans on moving back to mumbai in 2 months...but has even asked me to come with him. Do indian men get as confused with dating us as we are with them?


    Can anyone help me? I am totally confused. Would him being a rich boy born and raised in India, though he's traveled all over the world, and living in the US make a difference from what you've stated in your blog?


    Another thing, I am not a white woman I am ASIAN...more specifically, filipino with some chinese...little bit of spanish with some indian traits as I have some Indian traces in my line. I am always pursued by many many men and am always being told that I am beautiful and it just confuses me that he does not want to jump at the chance to be with me, as conceited as that may sound. Do "on the surface" qualities such as race, religion, and culture override the natural human drives like love, attraction, chemistry, and just wanting to be with someone you have a good time with?


    any and all comments and suggestions are appreciated!

    Leana

    ReplyDelete
  168. Hi Leana,

    every man on this planet would say things like: "I love you" and "I feel so connected to you" as long as he is intimate with the current woman he is with. Nearly every man who has had sex with a woman for more than a dozen times probably have said the "I Love You" phrase to her. The fact is that most men, Indian or non-Indian, don't know what they mean by saying that. In a month-and-a-half long relationship, I think words don't really matter. It would take a lot of maturity, as LL once said, for people from two different worlds to completely fall in Love. I wouldn't recommend getting intimate with a guy within months of dating him (I know, weird!), because your are just giving him what he wants.


    Now for some good news: If a Hindu guy's parents got married through dating, then the guy is going to do the same. There are thousands of people in India who date and get married. So religion is not a matter in your case. I definitely know for sure that your guy is going to get married to the girl he is dating. It could be you. Technically, your guy is not the traditional Indian, so you can reject many stories of failed relationships which you might have read here.

    Oh, girl, you better be the best and the most well read of the girls he has ever dated, because education is a must in Indian marriages. If he goes to college, you better be going to college too, or should have finished college and have a job.

    You can tell what an Indian guy (not talking about yours) wants from the beginning. Most guys try to date women who are a lot less educated than they are, or even who didn't even go to college. Because it would be easy to dump her when they finish college, or when they are moving back.

    The most important thing in a relationship with an Indian is not whether he loves you, but if he wants to marry you. Since you have made it clear that he is not traditional, WHY DON'T YOU ASK HIM TO INTRODUCE YOU TO HIS PARENTS AS HIS GIRLFRIEND? (emphasis on 'Girlfriend')

    And reply back after a few weeks. I would love to hear from you.


    Adithya

    ReplyDelete
  169. Adithya,
    Thank you for your comment! Really eased the doubts a little bit, but not raising my hopes too high here.


    Another thing with him that I should mention...he told me his father did not reach past high school. His father is not college educated and worked his way up the ladder of the industry. He told me that he is only studying as well to get experience and said that his father is not expecting him to obtain a degree, as he already has a shoe in to the Bollywood industry. So, with the education, I'm not sure how he sees that either. Though when I told him I'm doing Nursing he was very pleased =)


    I know that it was a little too soon for me and him to get intimate, but it's what my heart wanted so I just went with it. He definitely is not the traditional indian man and that is what confuses me the most. What would hurt to me is...he treats me with so much respect and care, it would be too bad if I was just some fling. My heart tells me it was more than that though. I don't want to marry the guy, I dont know him enough yet, but what I really feel for him is strong.


    I'm not sure if I should talk to him about all of this. One of my friends who has a lot of Indian guy friends said that they do not like "relationship" talks and such, as it is in their culture to "just be" and not really talk about feelings. Is that true?


    Also, I was wondering if they saw Asian women the same way -emotionally and sexually- they do white women?


    Way too many questions lol, but I feel that if I'm just some fling...no matter how strong I like this guy, I don't want to be seen as just another fling and get out before I get too attached- if I'm not already. In a way I've already made up my mind to cut it off with him...i'm just not sure if I should tell him the reasons why or if I should just go about it the old fashioned way- just stop calling him =(


    Thanks guys!

    Leana

    ReplyDelete
  170. hey guys me again =P

    Just wanted to throw in there that he already told his parents about me. Not as a girlfriend though. He told me he wants me to talk to his mom next time she calls from India and has told his parents that we are taking a trip to Europe together.

    Good signs right? I just don't know if I should believe him though...you never know what stories a man- indian or not- can make up just to impress you for his own agenda. I just feel that this week he has been so distant and not sure if me (and him) want to continue this further. And in our culture it seems very clingy and desperate if the girl calls too much...is that seen the same way in the indian dating culture?


    Again, thanks!

    Leana

    ReplyDelete
  171. Leana,

    In India dating is not usual. The ones which have dated hide from their parents and go out in secrecy. And most Indian men have almost no romantic experiences before marriage, so it is quite right to say that Indian men don't know how to express their feelings the way western men do.


    In India, and like in most Asian countries, white women are seen as more attractive, which would explain why the 'Fair & Lovely' cream sells like pan cakes in India. But I really find east Asian women very attractive. It depends on the individual. But the answer to your question is: 'Not really in the same way as they like white women.'


    And you mentioned you are going to cut it off. I can't comment on your relationship without even knowing you, but if he doesn't introduce you to his parents as his girlfriend, and is not very nice to you as he was before, then he clearly has something in mind. So cutting it off is better.

    ReplyDelete
  172. LoL Europe huh? May be I underestimated him.

    Ok, I think I will have to go through this guy again. Did he tell you that he told his parents, or did you hear him tell them?

    If he has already told them, then I think he is really into you. Don't expect him to introduce you as his girlfriend, because you are only one and a half months old (the dating age). And talk to him mom? For real?

    Well if that happens, let me know.



    "I just don't know if I should believe him though."

    Hold up. That phrase needn't be there. I think you should wait and talk to his mom...and go to EUROPE!

    LOL

    Did you really type that Europe thingy or is that a mistyping?

    By the way, a girl can call too much. I would personally like my girlfriend, if I had one, to call me on and on and on. Since he is a Bollywood big shot, and having slept with various other women (untypical in Indian culture), there is a chance that he could be a 'Player.'


    Or I could be all wrong. LoL.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Leana,

    I think it's only incidental that you happen to be dating an Indian guy. Otherwise, nothing about your question or situation has much to do with Indians. It is about your dating situation in general, right?

    All I can tell you is that one-and-half months is too early in a relationship to get fully serious or decide on the course of your future life. Give it time, go with the flow, keep an open mind and see what happens. The MOST important piece of advice I can give you at this point is to not do or give anything at this point, which you would regret later if the relationship does not work out. As long as you are sure you won't regret it later, you may do whatever feels good and safe.

    Good luck and all the best. I hope things work out well for you. Let me know if you have more questions. If you want, you are welcome to email me. My email address is on the top right side of my blog in the About Me.

    Cheers,
    LL

    ReplyDelete
  174. Hey LL,
    hehe i apologize for making ur blog into a forum for my personal problems! In all seriousness though, this blog really did help me understand why he does some of the things he does and why he doesn't do some of the things he doesn't do.

    Thanks for the wishes, and I just want to say, no matter what happens...I'm glad I met him and introduced me to your guys' wonderful culture. I have so much respect for the indian culture and through the my discoveries of the Indian customs, it has taught me to reflect upon my own culture and it has helped me to value the fine points of mine as well.

    And, Adi.. Yes, I have already thought about all those things you brought up i.e. him being a player or maybe he's really into me. What i think I will do is go with LL's advice and just treat him normal and do what I feel and go with the flow.

    I will definitely give this a chance and I will also let you guys know how everything turns out. I appreciate all your advice guys =)

    Thanks,
    Leana

    ReplyDelete
  175. Leana,

    I just viewed your post on another site. I never knew you were so confused. Can you believe it? I was reading some comments below an article, and suddenly I see yours with your name. I wish you all the best. Hope that guy realizes who you really are.

    ReplyDelete
  176. Hey adi! Been awhile since I got on this site! You found a post on another site with my name on it? probably coincidence as I only posted on here with my situation and actually, "Leana" isn't even my real name haha.

    In actuality, what happened between me and him was somewhat expected. I gave him time...and he turned it into a catch-me-if-you-can game, which was sad because I really respected him, only for him to turn out into another arrogant rich boy who didn't value people.

    I felt like maybe he didn't want to be involved and I didn't want to wait anymore for him so I opened up my options again. It's funny because the only times he wanted me was when I was out with another guy. And when he realized I wasn't going to get intimate until I got respect from him, and noticed that I got a lot of attention from other guys- finally realizing that I'm not such an easy target after all?- he stopped calling and didn't even follow up on the next time we were supposed to have a dinner date. Or maybe he thought I wasn't so much into him because I opened up my options again? We'll never know.

    We're both moving to different countries this week for school and I did manage to call him one last time. Told him to take care and told him I had a great time with him. It's too bad because out of all the guys calling me, he was the one I really genuinely liked and wanted to have a good time with.

    I know this has nothing to do with indian men and I don't view the indian race any less because of one person. But as for men, that's a different story. Just wanted to let other women out there how my "dating-indian-men" story turned out lol.

    Take care and I wish everyone luck in not just dating indian men, but interracial dating in general =)

    "Leana"

    ReplyDelete
  177. Hi Leana! I'm pretty sure I found the other post on a site about Indian marriages: the girl who wrote the comment said she was Asian and involved with an Indian guy, who is not so much into her right now. She had many guys approaching her, but she wants to wait for him. She mentioned the guy is going to move back to Bombay/Mumbai in a few months. Ya, and she also mentioned "she fell for the Indian man charm," which made me laugh my head off! Her name was Leana, which is what lead me to come back here and post a reply to you. May be you were worrying about that guy too much to remember how many times you posted on the net. Haha.


    Thanks for your reply. I kind of predicted your story when I first talked to you, but was hoping that it wouldn't end this way. Too bad he happened to be "another arrogant rich boy who didn't value people."
    Every man has the capability to play around, but one thing's for sure with Indian men: they (including me) know for sure that it is easy to have 'fun' with non-Indian women, especially in the west, because they know for a fact that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for an Indian guy to get laid with an Indian girl before marriage.


    And wow! Moving to different countries for school. That's amazing. I'm myself planning to transfer to University of Oxford. Haha. Just kidding. I'm stuck at the crazy south.

    Anyway, it was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for sharing your experience with people here.

    ReplyDelete
  178. You know...I absolutely hate to generalize but..
    I feel sorry for all the non-Indian women who are with Indian men. Every couple I've met, the men shove their Indian culture down their women's throats, and seem to date women outside their race for sex and prestige...It's just all too typical..they fool around with girls here, and then go back to India to find a virgin bride.
    But if they do end up marrying a white/asian/black girl here, I feel especially sorry for that girl because [I know this doesn't apply to ALL of them, but definitely MOST] Indian guys..are well..um..small in the pants.
    Anyways, just my opinion and personal experience. I am an Indian myself so don't label me as a racist. =)

    ReplyDelete
  179. Wild but Classy,

    your comment seems to reveal your opinion--and only yours. I don't think anyone should feel sorry for a girl who married a guy--Indian or American--who has a small penis. After all, both the girl and the guy aren't going to be inside each other for eternity. I wonder how any Indian girl would know about the penile size of half-a-billion men, especially when she herself was brought up to believe that sex before marriage is a sin.

    Oh, and here's the funny part: "I am an Indian myself so don't label me as a racist."

    Hahaha.

    Made my day!

    ReplyDelete
  180. "But if they do end up marrying a white/asian/black girl here, I feel especially sorry for that girl because [I know this doesn't apply to ALL of them, but definitely MOST] Indian guys..are well..um..small in the pants.
    Anyways, just my opinion and personal experience. I am an Indian myself so don't label me as a racist. =)"

    Ouch! Well, if we are going to say things with the disclaimer "I hate to generalize" how about how Indian gals seem to put on weight as soon as that engagement ring slides down her finger? Or that they have to get waxed more frequently than other gals? - KXB

    ReplyDelete
  181. so i have a question.
    I work with an indian guy. I thought he was kinda creepy at first, hes nice, but creepy. I had to drive him home a couple of times and he definetely is interested in me. he said he has a crush on me and that i'm sexy and that he wanted to kiss me. He also is married and has kids back where he's from. I clearly said no i have a boyfriend but he doesnt quit hidding on me. he thinks its ok cuz if neither of us tell then no one will know. is this normal? is he gonna give up?

    ReplyDelete
  182. Curious,

    from the data at hand, one can't draw any conclusions about your relationship. All one can say with absolute certainty is that you can't spell and he is a pussy, and had this happened in Saudi Arabia, the punishment would be from the Sharia.

    Hope that helps.

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  183. curious,

    Before I answer your question, I want to make it clear that your question has nothing to do with Indian men in particular. It is only incidental that the colleague hitting on you happens to be an Indian. He could just as well have been from any other country.

    Coming to your question: I don't think your colleague is a pussy (unlike what's written in the comment above this one). I do think that your colleague is extremely stupid and reckless. Since he has already accepted in his mind that it is okay to hit on you despite him being married with kids and your having a boyfriend, he won't stop or give up merely because you ask him to stop. When a man reaches that level of stupidity and recklessness, he can't be stopped by mere requests or appeals.

    There is one way to stop him. Explain to him clearly and affirmatively that if he does not stop bothering you, you'll file a formal sexual harrasment complaint against him with your company. Make him understand that a sexual harrasment suit will cost him dearly in professional and personal life. That should put a brake on his misdeeds.

    And, under no circumstances should you spend time alone with him - at work or outside of work.

    Hope that helps.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  184. I was friends with an Indian boy I met at work for about 6 months. We got on really well and he was so lovely. However, then he told me he had feelings for me. I was getting over a previous boyfriend so told him I didn't want a relationship. A few months later we started seeing eachother outside of work more regularly and ended up kissing a few times. I realised I had feelings for him but still said I wasn't ready for a relationship and he said he'd wait for me. So eventually I agreed to go out with him and a few weeks later we slept together. It my first time so when he told me afterwards that he only liked me as a friend I was left heartbroken. He never gave a reason and I had to quit work because it was so awkward between us. I have spoken to him about three times since we had sex, but not once since I left work. He ignores my calls and when I went into work to collect my things he completely disappeared to avoid me. I don't know why he pretended to be into me if he only wanted sex?! I'm so confused by this boy and he never wanted to talk about his feelings afterwards. Any ideas what it could have been?

    ReplyDelete
  185. Jamie,

    I'm assuming that your then coworker is really Indian (Indian as in born and raised in India). Your case has more to do with a guy's behavior than with the specific case of an Indian guy's behavior.


    "Any ideas what it could have been?"

    Well, for one, he could have been turned on by Sarah Palin's republican tits.

    Haha, it's a no brainer. Given the high Testosterone levels, males tend to be most sexually attracted to the opposite sex. And if it only takes a lie to get laid, then we will lie. But it is only the general theory of male-sexuality.

    Here's the Special Theory of Indian-sexuality:

    He could be one of the many mama's boys who is about to go to India and get married to the same caste-same religion girl. He could be looking to satisfy his White girl/Black girl fantasies before settling for the usual once-a-leap-year sex Indian girl.


    But the most strange, rather disturbing, thing about your post is your quitting work.

    "and I had to quit work because it was so awkward between us"

    If you had to quit work for a guy who went out with you for a few weeks and who you knew for 6 months, I think you should seriously reconsider your decision.

    ReplyDelete
  186. Jamie,

    I'm so sorry to hear of your bad experience. With this Indian guy you met, one of two things could have happened:
    1. He was never into you and he just tricked you into sleeping with him.

    2. He thought he had feelings for you in the rush of physical attraction and lust for you. But once that lust was satisfied, he realized that he does not have the deep feelings needed to commit to you for life.

    In either case, you are better off forgetting him and moving on. Don't try to contact him. If you feel so uncomfortable around him, I support your decision to quit your work. Hopefully that will help to forget him and move on.

    Before I sign-off, please do keep in mind that your experience does not necessarily have anything to do with the fact that the guy you slept with is an Indian. This could have happened with any guy, from any part of the world. In fact, this happens everyday between young people all over the world. What part of the world are you in, may I ask?

    Anyway, I wish you all the best in your future. Please do keep in mind the advice I have given to many ladies in the comments above: in a relationship with any man, not just an Indian, never do, say or give anything that you might regret later if the relationship does not work out. If you keep that in mind, you'll be safe. Having said that, sometimes finding true love does involve taking a blind leap of faith.

    Anyway, hope this helped.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  187. Indian men can never get Western women while Indian women kiss up or sell out to Western women. This is because the Interracial relationship in western countries are prejudiced. Its always White Men with Colored Women and never we see a Colored Men with White women. This is due to constant emasculation of the Colored Men by the mainstream Western media.
    And most White women are very racist too and stick to only their White Men even though the White Men enjoy with all types of Women.
    The real losers are only Colored men.

    ReplyDelete
  188. Is it their low melanin content that makes them "very racist"? Congratulations! You just proposed a new paper in anthropology.

    ReplyDelete
  189. Hello, thank you for your information about culture and relationships and family. Well my boy friend is from India. Him and I have been together for almost 3 months now, and we know each for about 5 months and we both notice that there are some similarities in our cultures, I am Mexican. I was just wondering; you mention that Indian men are not expressive in public and I understand about respect and I believe in the same things but I notice that my boy friend likes to give me a small kiss in public wen he say good bye and also one more thing he holds my hand wen we walk he is very romantic. So I found it strange since I knew that Indian men are not expressive in public that my boyfriend is very expressive. I have told him not to kiss me in public because I found it disrespectful but well I got use to it know. Also, I saw wile working, an other couple, he is Indian and she is white and he also sees her like she is his world and he also gives her little kisses. I wonder is this is ok? and normal. One more thing he has mention me to his mother slowly and tells her that I cook for him and take care of him he also wants me to meet his brother who is located somewhere north of the U.S. He has beg me to go to India to talk to his mother and tell her that I love him. I am willing too but as you know I am scared of the unknown, I am scared also of leaving my family. I am not 18 any more and I should think about family and I am!! and I love him but how to know if he is the one? how to know? I am also scared of his family if they would dislike me mm.. may be I should just take the risk and stop being scared. I don't want to loose him because of my insecurities.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Hi! I need some advice. I met a 30yrs old Indian man through work in India. I am East Asian. He is very serious about his profession, our bosses are like family, and we have a lot in common in our professional fields. He does not seem to have had many girls around him if any. There has been an fun friendship and we are very attracted to each other. This last time I was in India he asked me out and we had dinner, he indirectly tried to 'invite to his house' (probably have some intimacy, not quite sure how these things work in India, since they have arranged marriages), but I acted as if I did not understand and I did nor go and he seemed frustrated as if I had told him I did not like him. I am skeptical to be intimate with someone who probably never had sex before and get all messed up with the feeling of love/sex. I am divorced with no kids and I wonder if he wants just sex but he does not seem to be the type.
    I will see this guy twice a year, for years to come, I would date him if we lived in the same city. Ultimately I think he would be happiest if he married an Indian girl so I am trying to keep my attraction to the friendship level. What do you think?

    ReplyDelete
  191. Dear LL,
    Thanks for your post. This has been extremely helpful. I have a few questions...

    One of the posted comments made mention of Indian men wanting women to initiate or set the tone for things. Is this accurate? Does it make a difference if the Indian man was raised in Canada/US?

    Also does being the oldest son in the family make a difference in terms of familial responsibilities?

    Lastly, from what I've read, Indian men are not particularly affectionate. Is that pretty universal to Indian men born there, raised here or just to men born and raised in India?

    Thanks for all your help!

    S.S.

    ReplyDelete
  192. Anonymous from East Asia,

    It is extremely risky to date colleagues or business associates. It is generally not advised to do so. In your case, you are right to keep this at the friendship level. And yes, your colleague would be better off being married to an Indian girl. Especially because he is settled in India.

    From your comment, I could not understand where YOU want this attraction to go. Do you just want to have a fling or do you want it to become a long-term serious relationship like marriage?

    If you want it to be simply a fling, understand that it will most probably get messy. Especially considering that he is a business associate with whom you hope to do business for years to come. And also because he does not seem to be experienced in these matters. Most flings don't end cleanly.

    If you want this to turn into a serious relationship, understand that it is very rare for such things to happen between Indians and foreigners. As compared to say between other Western people and other (non-Indian) East Asians. This is especially true for Indians who are in India.

    Hope this helped.

    ReplyDelete
  193. Sally,

    Indian men have as much of a male instinct to take charge as anybody else. That means, in general terms, they don't wait for the women to 'initiate' anything. However, it is possible that a Western woman might find the Indian man to be hesitant and circumspect. The reasons could be one or both of the following:

    1. Most Indian men don't have experience in casual dating. So, he doesn't know when / how to make a move.

    2. Unmarried Indians don't have sex quite as readily as people in some cultures do. So, the Indian guy might not even realize that his date is ready to take it to the next level in physical terms.

    It could make a difference if the Indian man was raised in Canada or US, but a lot depends on how he was raised, his circle of friends while growing up, etc. But yes, it will certainly make a difference.

    Does being the oldest son mean more familial responsibilities? Traditionally this was the case. But family situations among Indians are changing rapidly these days. So, a lot depends on how traditional the family setup of your particular Indian is. The probability is very high that at least the responsibility of taking care of the parents in the old age is on his shoulders.

    It is not true that Indian men are not affectionate. They are as affectionate as anybody else. In fact, they might be more sentimental than Western men. However, public display of affection is not common in Indian culture. So, an Indian man, especially one brought up in India, might not display physical affection in public as much as a Western man might.

    Hope that answers your questions.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  194. Dear Libran Lover

    Thank you so much for you words. You said it is not clear what I want out of this and you are right. I am now still trying to understand what went on:

    So it would be possible for a 30yrs old man to be a virgin in India?

    Also I am not 100% sure about his moves. Because we are business associates, so far, we always made sure to have other colleagues around. This time was the first time he wanted to meet alone, and I am not sure if this has meaning to him. But he made sure no one from the office knew we were going by ourselves.

    He is kind of shy, and he was NOT very assertive when I started to signal down.

    I really like this guy, and the painful thing is that I have the impression that he would be willing go against social rules to be together on a long term relationship. It is also painful to think he probably thinks I am not into him.

    But on the practical side, in real life, if I did not move to India there would not be a life for us, I would have to live with his parents and I don’t think I want to have children. If we got together this would be a window of possibilities for him, also my salary is couple times more than his so it would be beneficial to him in this sense (although I don’t think he is interested in that) but I still think he would be better of marrying an Indian girl. This is how much I care about him.

    Any further comments?

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  195. Again from East Asia anonym

    Quick question, as a man, do you think me East Asia anonym being to romantic and the Indian man was just trying to have easy sex?

    ReplyDelete
  196. LL,
    Thanks for your answers. You've really cleared things up for me.

    Thanks for this blog. It's been very helpful and given me better understanding of your culture.

    Sally

    ReplyDelete
  197. East Asian chick,

    Yes, it is possible for a 30-year-old Indian to be a virgin. Heck, there are even 30-year-old Americans who are virgins!

    You are right about the probable practicalities of a long-term relationship with your Indian friend: you may have to move to India, live with his parents, get along very closely with his family, etc. All that wouldn't be easy for either one of you.

    All I know about you is through your comments. I don't know anything about your friend. So, I cannot say if you are being romantic and if he is only interested in easy sex. It is possible, but I can't say for sure as I don't know you people personally.

    If you have any more specific questions, feel free to email me. My email address is at the top right corner of this blog.

    LL

    ReplyDelete
  198. LL,

    One more question for ya...

    Do Indian men tend to be hands-on fathers or more removed and only see themselves as the "provider"?

    Thanks!
    Sally

    ReplyDelete
  199. Hi If an Indian man (American, born here, etc) told my friend she needed a good massage and a martini while talking during a softball game, was he flirting? She is about 10 years older, white American woman. He's unmarried...

    Elaine

    ReplyDelete

Please do not comment as Anonymous. Please use a name when commenting... even a false one will do! :-) You don't have to register to use a name.